Ownership of car after breakup

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Gordon Gekko said:
Yours is the one that the available evidence points to.
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Exactly, the earlier point is quite valid, a car is not a bracelet. There is no legal requirement to register a change in ownership of a bracelet whereas there is for a car. If the partner hasn't complied with their obligations under the act, can they really claim ownership?
 
you can't jointly register a car, it has to go in one name or the other. But most family cars would be considered "jointly" owned. Even if the couple in question aren't married, it wouldn't be an unusual arrangement to have one car between them. Someone mentioned insurance earlier - usually they ask if the car is owned by you or your spouse, but by spouse they generally also mean co-habiting partner.

If she's refusing to offer anything then you probably need a solicitor OP, with a reasonable possibility that you will lose.
 
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But by all means start a war.

- How do you get around to things like shops on the weekends now?
- Why is she so mad at you she’s refusing to give you back, your, car.
- solicitors will love you
- the ex will hate you, and just wait until she gets a solicitors letter, never mind the Gardai showing up when you lie and report the car stolen, that fact you’ve even considered that latter point is revealing.
- one good lesson you’ve learnt, don’t buy expensive items when you’re madly in love but not married,
- finally, you need to watch Judge Judy, the amount of couples having arguments over cars is only beaten by arguments over engagement ring ownership
 
Who paid for the tax, insurance and petrol. Would help in the ownership game. However before we go down that rocky road there’s an old expression, possession is nine tenths of the law....
 
Thanks for effort in responding Bronte but I’m Not looking for life advice, just a straight forward legal opinion if anyone on this site has had a similar experience. I’m not motivated by revenge or pettiness, for me it’s just a matter of right and wrong and settling our affairs before we permanently part ways. If the advice is I have no legal standing then so be it, but as I suspect, the person that paid for the car is the owner then I will pursue that. I’m in process of getting legal advice, but just wanted to try the amicable approach first.
 
Bronte said:
Who paid for the tax, insurance and petrol. Would help in the ownership game. However before we go down that rocky road there’s an old expression, possession is nine tenths of the law....
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Tax, insurance by parther, petrol was shared depending on who drove. But all of the above would not impact car value, there was no maintenance on car which would be the only exception. I take your point on possession, but that’s what court orders are for.
 
To everyone that responded constructively, a serious thank you. This site is a great resource. Whenthis all plays out I will update thread on the facts of the matter so others may benefit going forward. Please continue to add to the thread if you have some experience or knowledge in this area.
 
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Hi Fangs, I know you're not looking for life advice and you are interested merely in legal advice. The car is depreciating in value every day just like your relationship but if you are willing to pay more (as for legal advice) your costs will appreciate.

The whole thing is costing you, but you've earned some huge lessons and at less cost than you now think. I'd advise:- Quit while you're a little behind because if you don't you could find yourself much behind.
 
I don't know how lines of communication are, and how spiteful you are both feeling.

But the cheapest way of settling this would be for one to buy the other out.

This needs both of you to negotiate, but will probably be cheaper than going to court.
 
Just to bring this thread to a conclusion and to offer advise for those in future who may find themselves in my situation....Today I successfully received my car back . Some advice below on how I think this was achieved, there was a mixture of carrot and stick as you'll see.

1. First mistake was not necessarily registering car in partners name, it was not agreeing in writing up front what to do in the event of a breakup. All couples think they will last forever so often this step is ignored. Another alternative, is to sign the logbook transfer of ownership form and retain ownership of the logbook along with payment receipts.
2. There is no definitive legal status on the 'legal owner' between the person who bought the car and the registered owner - according to my solicitor. If it went to the district court (only applicable for claims <15k), then it pretty much is a Judge Judy situation. Worse case if you lose here and have to pay partners legal costs would be €2-4k. Factors like who paid for maintenance, who drove the car, can it be demonstrated the car was or was not a gift come to bear.
3. The advise provided by lughildanach (thank you) on CAT was very useful. It was a cost not considered by my ex, and helped to tip the balance in my favour I think.
4. I maintained a very civil discourse, one email / text a week so its not badgering but you're letting her know that this wont go away and can't be ignored. I stuck to moral and rational arguments (I paid for it, we shared the car, I never said it was a gift, this isn't like you etc...) and avoided any derogatory or threatening language (it does help to think along lines of anything you write could be used in evidence). It obviously did help that the break-up was not overly fractuous, this is the variable which will depend on individual circumstances.
5. I did finally threaten that I would reluctantly go to the district court and would do whatever it took to seek the return of the car. This was in the knowledge my partner wouldn't have the will power or means to cover legal costs...I could gamble she could not. This was only mentioned after I felt we had exhausted all other options. It was only after I mentioned this that she finally agreed to return the car.
6. From start to end it was about 7 weeks. So maybe allowing some time to pass and emotions to settle allows reason to surface also.

Thanks to all for you help and hopefully someone else will find this useful.
 
There is no worthwhile guidance in there at all. There wouldn’t have been any CAT. Your solicitor doesn’t seem to know the difference between “legal ownership” and “beneficial ownership”, which is very odd. You essentially bullied and threatened this person into submission, behaviour I don’t think should be condoned.
 
@Gordon Gekko the differentiation is between "registered ownership" and "beneficial ownership". I congratulate OP on resolving the issue simply by resorting to law, every citizen's right.

Well done @fangs, I'm delighted with the outcome for you.
 
mathepac said:
@Gordon Gekko the differentiation is between "registered ownership" and "beneficial ownership". I congratulate OP on resolving the issue simply by resorting to law, every citizen's right.

Well done @fangs, I'm delighted with the outcome for you.
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Yes, registered owner being “legal owner” and beneficial owner being “owner owner”. And the OP didn’t “resort to law”; do people read posts or threads at all?
 
mathepac said:
@Gordon Gekko the differentiation is between "registered ownership" and "beneficial ownership". I congratulate OP on resolving the issue simply by resorting to law, every citizen's right.

Well done @fangs, I'm delighted with the outcome for you.
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Thanks Mathepac, I suppose another key bit of advice is to keep things civil despite any provacation and try and avoid this scenario in the first place!
 
fangs said:
Surprised at this trolling TBH, I wont be responding to your posts.
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How is it trolling? You said there’d be CAT implications when there would clearly be none, a fact that was pointed out to you previously (by me).

You have essentially harrassed and threatened the poor woman into submission using your deeper pockets as leverage.

Reprehensible behaviour in my view.
 
Only responding on the matter of CAT, which you are entitled to respond on and is a valid challenge. However, your judgement on harrassment is ill informed and unnecessary- you do not know the context or who did what to whom. Keep these opinions to yourself please.

From the Revenue website.

What do you pay CAT on?

Some items regarded as a gift or inheritance include:
  • cash
  • jewellery or a car
  • house or lands
  • stocks and shares
  • the use of a property for free, or for less than it is
    worth
  • an interest free loan
  • a life interest or a right of residence in a property.

My ex partners claim on the car was that it was a gift from me to her (I paid for the car). She was not my spouse or civil partner. Hence CAT applies no?
 

The first €3k of value is exempt.

A stranger can receive a further €16,250 tax free from another stranger.

It’s called the “Group C Threshold”.

I posted that earlier in the thread.
 

- The narrative that you presented to her in relation to CAT was bogus
- You threatened her and took advantage of your superior financial means

It’s just my view, but I don’t think you have covered yourself in glory here.
 
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