Outrageous New Banking Charges

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trajan

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Skinning the consumer is nothing new in Irish banking.
But even by their own standards the latest hikes to common banking charges are outrageous.
For example, Ulster Bank: 80c per automated deposit.

As I recall, about €150 billion went into Irish banks 12 years ago.
You might say, for what ?
To make these entities "pillars" of finance for the nation ?

Presently all I need a bank for is paying my half-dozen DDs and using my debit card online or at ATMs abroad.
I think that creating an umbrella clearing entity for all credit unions is highly desirable.
If this means a new Banking & Credit Act, then great.

P.S. Does anyone know what the business plan is by the main banks after they rid themselves of consumer banking customers ?
 
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trajan said:
For example, Ulster Bank: 80c per automated deposit.
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When did they announce this? I thought the 80c charge was for paper / staff assisted transactions. That's the opposite of automated.

If your post was factually correct it'd promote a better discussion on the topic.
 
1) The Irish government did not put any money into Ulster Bank.

2) The money that was put in was to bail out the depositors not the banks

3) If Ulster wants to charge 80c, then switch to another bank

4) Bank charges are very small in comparison to much bigger issues such as mortgage rates.
 
It seems churlish to let facts get in the way of a good rant but here are UB’s actual current account charges -

Customer Support Hub for Account Closure

Ulster Bank is closing. Visit our dedicated Customer Support Hub for guidance on closing your Ulster Bank account and related queries. This support hub is for personal banking customers. We're here to support you through this change.
digital.ulsterbank.ie digital.ulsterbank.ie
 
Brendan Burgess said:
1) The Irish government did not put any money into Ulster Bank.

2) The money that was put in was to bail out the depositors not the banks

3) If Ulster wants to charge 80c, then switch to another bank

4) Bank charges are very small in comparison to much bigger issues such as mortgage rates.
Click to expand...
The 80 cents per branch transaction charge seems designed to target the elderly & the relatively poor and uneducated as these groups are (1) less IT savy and more reliant on branch services (2) less likely to switch banks (that's just a guess but likely to be the case). Extracting additional fees from these groups may well make makes business sense but it doesn't do anything to restore that particular bank's reputation.
 
tomdublin said:
The 80 cents per branch transaction charge seems designed to target the elderly & the relatively poor and uneducated as these groups are (1) less IT savy and more reliant on branch services (2) less likely to switch banks (that's just a guess but likely to be the case). Extracting additional fees from these groups may well make makes business sense but it doesn't do anything to restore that particular bank's reputation.
Click to expand...

By way of context, it costs €1.10 to post a letter. Is this an impossible burden?

The high rates Irish banks charge for secured and unsecured lending are a much bigger rip-off.
 
@RedOnion: So did I till I got my bumper charges statement one month ago.
I wonder are we paying in advance for the cost of making tellers redundant ?

@Brendan Burgess: Maybe not directly as cash - but didn't UB benefit from moving of non-performing loans or useless assets to NAMA or overseas investors ?

@Sarenco: Read the fees & charges in your link. It says 80c per use of automated deposits of cash/cheques.

Moving to other banks will only delay the onset of these charges. I even hear from Finland that their bank charges are gone up too.

But my main point is this: what do most people NEED a bank for ?
Usually it's for payments that are only taken by DD - a sort of invoice-discounting racket operated by companies and the banks - or else for a debit/ATM card.
By giving a clearing licence to the combined credit unions, these facilities can be got via credit unions.
Then the banks are shut of us commoners and our petty concerns and can bash bums with the fat cats of Ireland.
And we can ride into the sunset clear of them. Free at last, free at last . . . :D
 
@NoRegretsCoyote: Let's be clear here. Are you saying that Ulster Bank never benefitted from either NAMA or the various government policies towards making banks in Ireland more solvent in the wake of the 2008 crisis ?
 
trajan said:
Read the fees & charges in your link. It says 80c per use of automated deposits of cash/cheques.
Click to expand...
The fee schedule says that automated payments and transfers into your account are subject to a fee of €0.20 per transaction.

In-branch cash and cheque lodgements are subject to a fee of €0.80 per transaction.

Transaction fees are waived if a €3,000 balance is maintained in your account at all times during each charging cycle.
 
tomdublin said:
The 80 cents per branch transaction charge seems designed to target the elderly
Click to expand...
I think the higher costs are targeted specifically at transactions that cost more to process.

trajan said:
By giving a clearing licence to the combined credit unions, these facilities can be got via credit unions.
Click to expand...
Many credit unions already provide most of the 'banking' services that most people need to use on a daily basis. There's no legislation needed, and no need for a new clearing system or credit unions joining the clearing system.
 
higher costs are targeted specifically at transactions that cost more to process.

You lodge €1,000 by hand at the counter or through the automated deposit machine.
By hand it'll take ~ 3 minutes to (machine) count the cash, credit the account and proffer a receipt.
So I wonder if that's a strong argument.
Just reflect on what amount of manual telling was done years ago in banks. Their net revenues per customer must have been awful slim compared to those of today's low-staffed banks.

Many credit unions already provide most of the 'banking' services that most people need to use on a daily basis.

Actually, you can not do a DD from a CU account. I just learned that this morning - thinking like you that I could.
All you can do is make inter-account transfers. And one by one, as they come due each month on your home PC using the snail-pace software CUs have. The scope for missing one is high (e.g. if away from home or on holiday, etc) and the time spent on such things is vexing.
Many of our regular payees, e.g. car-, house-, life- and health insurance plus utility bills like broadband, electricity, gas, etc all generally coerce you to use DDs for payment.
Then there's the general lack of a debit card from CUs that is accepted in foreign countries.

I think Irish banks need to decide soon if they are to service everyday consumers with mundane banking services or if they want to fight it out for the custom of the small percentage of high-earning professionals and high net-worth individuals. Plus the usual array of services to the commercial and investment sectors. I can see the commercial argument (basically, Pareto's principle) alluded to by BB and others. Of course all banks (as businesses in general) have the right to discontinue serving certain sectors. But since banks are not as common as sweet shops - and banking licences are not so easy to get - then this withdrawal process has to be managed fairly from the customers' viewpoint. Banks wanting out of consumer banking services should be required (legally, not by any loosely worded 'moral' or 'social' obligation) to communicate this to the Central Bank so that a viable alternative is in place first.
 
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trajan said:
Actually, you can not do a DD from a CU account. I just learned that this morning - thinking like you that I could.
Click to expand...
There's a difference between us. I wasn't 'thinking'. I know. I know I can set up direct debits on my credit union account. I can make international transfers. I can receive payments in. I've quite a nice App to do it all. Not all credit unions are the same.

trajan said:
cost more to process.

You lodge €1,000 by hand at the counter or through the automated deposit machine.
By hand it'll take ~ 3 minutes to (machine) count the cash, credit the account and proffer a receipt.
So I wonder if that's a strong argument.
Click to expand...
By your own estimate of 3 minutes, at 80 cent that works out at the bank charging 16 euro per hour. To quote you "Skinning the consumer"
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
That's what he is saying and it's true. Ulster Bank is owned by RBS which the UK government bailed out/nationalised.
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Actually it not what he is saying - it's what you impute to what he did say.
The link that I provided above suggests that UB had the same options in dealing with their bad debts and called-in collateral as did the home-based banks, i.e. BoI, AIB, PTSB. No ball of cash was extended by the state to UB. But I do believe - and I do not think it unfair that UB should apply for such assistance with troubled accounts in the names of Irish citizens - that UB availed of state facility to transfer bad debts to overseas purchasers and property collateral got off some creditors to NAMA.
 
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