Online trader

D

Dessie Duffy

Registered User
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4
I live in Cork.
I’m new to trading, buying and selling shares.
I wish to buy and sell FTSE stocks using an online trader.
Any advice, guidance or tips is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Des
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Don’t, unless you want to lose money
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This is not a true statement. Over a long period of time, the stock market does make you money. But for short term buying and selling, there is a higher risk of loss.
But also there are potential high gains too if you can time it right, but nobody can predict the future.
I use Degiro.
 
AndroidMan said:
This is not a true statement. Over a long period of time, the stock market does make you money. But for short term buying and selling, there is a higher risk of loss.
But also there are potential high gains too if you can time it right, but nobody can predict the future.
I use Degiro.
Click to expand...

Read my post again and perhaps don’t be as quick to brand something “untrue”.

The OP has no experience, and is asking about “buying and selling stocks” on a single index, the FTSE.

Your statement about the stock market making people money over a long period of time is irrelevant to the OP’s question or my reply.

As my Maths teacher always said, “RTFQ”...
 
FWIW I have an account with BUX Markets which you can use to trade CFDs/spreadbets. Platform is good, maybe not as feature rich as some of the bigger players, but it does the job. Spreadbetting is likely the best way to go for you as you pay no tax on gains, which means you keep more of your winnings and it removes the complexity of tax returns etc. One interesting side-benefit of the BUX platform is that they do not charge fees (beyond the spread) on positions where no leverage is used, so you can open a position in say the S&P500 and keep it open for a few years, then take any gains without having to pay CGT or other taxes - ie. it can be used to actually "invest" tax free. A bizarre loophole in our tax system.

Now having said all that, you will see this warning each time you login - 72.1% of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs and spread bets with this provider - and you should heed that warning very seriously. As Gordon said above, you are statistically extremely likely to lose money if you use one of these platforms and if you're planning to actualy day trade, as it seems you are, I would bet the odds are significantly higher than that 72% figure.

As a cautionary tale, when I opened my account I said to myself I would use no leverage and would just use it as a tax free way of being exposed to the S&P500. Went great for a year or so, but then I opened a couple of fairly small positions with leverage (20:1) on Tesla and S&P500. They went very well because the market was really only going up, so I opened a couple more, then C19 came along and even though the market only dropped a small number of percentage point because of the leverage I quickly found my account at €0.

My tip would be to open an account with a regular stock broker (DeGiro say) and buy a couple of ETFs like the S&P500 and just leave it to make much better returns than you can make in your bank account. If you need to scratch the itch of 'trading' then only after you have these ETFs in-place so you can see what real investing looks like, open a BUX account and stick €500 in there and proceed to lose it :)
 
AndroidMan said:
This is not a true statement. Over a long period of time, the stock market does make you money. But for short term buying and selling, there is a higher risk of loss.
But also there are potential high gains too if you can time it right, but nobody can predict the future.
I use Degiro.
Click to expand...

It's a lot closer to the truth than your statement. I spent thirty years in the business doing performance analysis, designing and selling trading tools etc.... and I can't recall a single trader that actually made serious money over the long term. In the end, a good result was to end up with the same money they started out with.
 
Warren Buffet has the idea of buying and holding, not trading. In the long term, FTSE with dividends reinvested is good. However, I presume that is for a good spread of FTSE companies and with decent sums invested as it would not make sense to be reinvesting under €100 of dividends from a bunch of FTSE companies.

Most important to do research if buying individual shares. Perhaps an investment trust (kind of ) following FTSE would be the thing???
 
Zenith63 said:
FWIW I have an account with BUX Markets which you can use to trade CFDs/spreadbets. Platform is good, maybe not as feature rich as some of the bigger players, but it does the job. Spreadbetting is likely the best way to go for you as you pay no tax on gains, which means you keep more of your winnings and it removes the complexity of tax returns etc. One interesting side-benefit of the BUX platform is that they do not charge fees (beyond the spread) on positions where no leverage is used, so you can open a position in say the S&P500 and keep it open for a few years, then take any gains without having to pay CGT or other taxes - ie. it can be used to actually "invest" tax free. A bizarre loophole in our tax system.

Now having said all that, you will see this warning each time you login - 72.1% of retail investor accounts lose money when trading CFDs and spread bets with this provider - and you should heed that warning very seriously. As Gordon said above, you are statistically extremely likely to lose money if you use one of these platforms and if you're planning to actualy day trade, as it seems you are, I would bet the odds are significantly higher than that 72% figure.

As a cautionary tale, when I opened my account I said to myself I would use no leverage and would just use it as a tax free way of being exposed to the S&P500. Went great for a year or so, but then I opened a couple of fairly small positions with leverage (20:1) on Tesla and S&P500. They went very well because the market was really only going up, so I opened a couple more, then C19 came along and even though the market only dropped a small number of percentage point because of the leverage I quickly found my account at €0.

My tip would be to open an account with a regular stock broker (DeGiro say) and buy a couple of ETFs like the S&P500 and just leave it to make much better returns than you can make in your bank account. If you need to scratch the itch of 'trading' then only after you have these ETFs in-place so you can see what real investing looks like, open a BUX account and stick €500 in there and proceed to lose it :)
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Thanks for the advice Zenith.
 
AndroidMan said:
This is not a true statement. Over a long period of time, the stock market does make you money. But for short term buying and selling, there is a higher risk of loss.
But also there are potential high gains too if you can time it right, but nobody can predict the future.
I use Degiro.
Click to expand...
Thanks AndroidMan, with Degiro are you offered the luxury of setting GTC and Stop Loss points when you are selling stocks?
 
Zenith63 said:
One interesting side-benefit of the BUX platform is that they do not charge fees (beyond the spread) on positions where no leverage is used, so you can open a position in say the S&P500 and keep it open for a few years, then take any gains without having to pay CGT or other taxes - ie. it can be used to actually "invest" tax free. A bizarre loophole in our tax system.
Click to expand...

What kind of spread would you expect to pay on a long unleveraged S&P 500 position?

If the spread bet provider hits the wall, where does this leave the punter?

Do Revenue reckon you are taking your financial life in your hands here and give you a pass as a result?!
 
The current spread on the S&P590 on the platform I mentioned is $1, so 0.02%. Basically irrelevant for buy&hold.

I imagine the punter is left with €0.00 if the provider hits the wall. I would not be putting my life savings into one provider that’s for sure.

Spreadbetting is treated as betting, which is untaxed in Ireland. I suspect there’s a point where you would be seen as carrying on a trade and be subject to taxation, my assumption is if you have a 9-5 job and are just doing this on the side that would not qualify. My other assumption is that this fairly obvious loophole will not and frankly should not remain open for ever.
 
Thanks for the info.

Zenith63 said:
My other assumption is that this fairly obvious loophole will not and frankly should not remain open for ever.
Click to expand...

If I lob in €20k to a spread bet account and execute a long unleveraged S&P 500 position, I have the equivalent of magic beans on my balance sheet now if I understand correctly.

Where I had a cash asset, I now have nothing in custody to replace this or any central counterparty guaranteeing the other side. Is there anything ring-fenced at the spread provider level to provide any residue for me if the founder does a runner? No investor compensation scheme?

I think 0% tax in the circumstances seems about right to me.
 
Dessie Duffy said:
Thanks AndroidMan, with Degiro are you offered the luxury of setting GTC and Stop Loss points when you are selling stocks?
Click to expand...
I looked at Degiro’s site. They allow you to purchase from worldwide markets I see.
Can you purchase any US stocks however obscure and unknown they may be or does Degiro offer a couple of dozen US stocks to trade?
 
Best advice I can give is run a virtual investment plan. That way if you lose you can walk away and if you win you can feel all knowing and smug when your mates ask you for investment advice.
 
For light entertainment you could listen to Kenny Rogers singing about the gambler who broke even.
 
AAAContributor said:
If I lob in €20k to a spread bet account and execute a long unleveraged S&P 500 position, I have the equivalent of magic beans on my balance sheet now if I understand correctly.

Where I had a cash asset, I now have nothing in custody to replace this or any central counterparty guaranteeing the other side. Is there anything ring-fenced at the spread provider level to provide any residue for me if the founder does a runner? No investor compensation scheme?

I think 0% tax in the circumstances seems about right to me.
Click to expand...
Sounds about right. Though if you’re going to day trade, I’d say this extra risk is the least of your concerns :).

In saying that, there are plenty of the big players offering spreadbetting, you’re not dealing with some fella on the corner either.
 
Zenith63 said:
In saying that, there are plenty of the big players offering spreadbetting, you’re not dealing with some fella on the corner either.
Click to expand...
I try to open an account on BUX markets and it's showing:
We are temporarily unable to accept applications from Residents of the EU.
Click to expand...

Do you know if there are any other platforms that don't charge overnight fee on positions where no leverage is used?
 
I have been using TDwaterhouse for the last few years but I have just noticed now that they were taken over by Interactiive Investor ( ii.co.uk ) in the middle of last year.
ii.co.uk have charged me about 13.99 stg for each month whereas TDwaterhouse was free.
I now have a bill of about 120 stg which I didn’t expect.
Has anybody else had the same problem ?
 
Using Degiro - Find it good and offers variety on loads of exchanges - has at least some 'test' before you opt to trade on leveraged/ complex products.
However, looking to invest in Dividend ETFs and see their choice is limited.

Is anyone using Robinhood?
 
Deathknell said:
Using Degiro - Find it good and offers variety on loads of exchanges - has at least some 'test' before you opt to trade on leveraged/ complex products.
However, looking to invest in Dividend ETFs and see their choice is limited.

Is anyone using Robinhood?
Click to expand...
Never mind - you need a US address
 
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