Offer on Apt. awaiting next stage

Hello all
I would appreciate some advice re the following offer on an Apt.

We are retirees in our 70s recently returned to Ireland from Overseas. We selected and researched four areas in a commuter town and decided to buy an Apartment in a secure complex. We hope to be travelling overseas to visit family and feel we can lock and leave our home in a safe place. This is a bank sale and has it's services cut off i.e. water and electricity and needs decoration and probably some kitchen appliances. The Apt is about 8yrs old and is in a very desirable location, very well kept and with a good Management Co. It will be sold "as is".
We have viewed the Apt. and found it suitable and after a few days I phoned the EA to put in our offer. The EA stated before you make an offer I need to tell you there is an offer in already for a certain amount. I offered 2500 more and advised we were cash buyers. He then stated he would keep us informed "every step of the way" and would be sending our offer to the bank.
Advice needed here:
The offer via phone was made ten days ago and we have heard nothing since. Should we continue to wait or call him to enquire re progress, or should we go to his office and put the offer in writing?
Also, can someone advise if EA's are legally bound to keep a client informed if further offers have been received?.

I would appreciate any advice you well informed people can give.

IrishAussie said:

Hello all
I would appreciate some advice re the following offer on an Apt.

We are retirees in our 70s recently returned from Overseas. We selected and researched four areas in a commuter town and decided to buy an Apartment in a secure complex. We hope to be travelling overseas to visit family and feel we can lock and leave our home in a safe place. This is a bank sale and has it's services cut off i.e. water and electricity and needs decoration and probably some kitchen appliances. The Apt is about 8yrs old and is in a very desirable location, very well kept and with a good Management Co. It will be sold "as is".
We have viewed the Apt. and found it suitable and after a few days I phoned the EA to put in our offer. The EA stated before you make an offer I need to tell you there is an offer in already for a certain amount. I offered 2500 more and advised we were cash buyers. He then stated he would keep us informed "every step of the way" and would be sending our offer to the bank.
Advice needed here:
The offer via phone was made ten days ago and we have heard nothing since. Should we continue to wait or call him to enquire re progress, or should we go to his office and put the offer in writing?
Also, can someone advise if EA's are legally bound to keep a client informed if further offers have been received?.

I would appreciate any advice you well informed people can give.

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Are you dealing with an Irish estate agent?

Yes Tobeor we are dealing with an Irish EA. We have returned to Ireland after several years overseas. Sorry if I'm not making myself clear.

Its a bank sale so its going to progress at a very slow pace,ring the e/a back up and tell him you need an answer pretty quickly,he really should have called you himself but its an Irish e/a so no surprise there.Dont soft soap him either tell him to get moving as you wont be waiting forever.

Bank sale properties can take forever. What do you mean by being sold 'as is'. Did you get an engineer to check it out, also is the management company in good order, with everybody paid up. I would phone the auctioneer back and ask what is the situation, also ask in his experience how long are these bank sales taking, and also ask how long has he been waiting so far for an answer from the bank to allow the sale.

Services cut off and very desirable location don't usually go together. If you haven't seen the property in person, get someone to check it out. And if no one has lived in it for more than 6 months, get it professionally checked by a damp specialist. Small things easily hidden by paint can be insanely expensive in apartment blocks.

Increasing an offer on an apartment unless its in a prime Dublin location is madness.

Let it go and start looking for another apartment.

Its Ireland, we have a good supply of apartments!

A purchaser's worst enemy is the purchaser who falls in love with a property, all the boxes ticked.

Irish EAs seem to miraculously get other bids just when you put an offer in.

OP said:
Also, can someone advise if EA's are legally bound to keep a client informed if further offers have been received?.

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The EA's client is the vendor to whom he owes a certain duty. Irish EAs, in general, are extremely useless (to put it mildly). They don't return phone calls, don't reply to emails (lucky if you get a 10% response here) and quite frankly IMHO, don't deserve the commission they are paid. I just feel sorry for the vendors.

The EA market is a type of closed shop - once the EA gets a property on their book, they are quite happy as they will get their commission when the property is eventually sold. Competition lacks, as in most cases, the Irish EA is the sole agency for the sale.

Having tried to buy five properties over the last 18 months, I know. The property I am currently trying to buy is directly from the vendor - and now, my solicitor seems to be the one who is dragging his feet.

I really despair of Irish businesses.

Google the particular complex you have in mind,you could find its fine and no problems alternatively you could find it posted on various fora with thread after thread due to anti social problems or paper thin partition walls,poor build quality,pyrite or is a fire risk.These are not the exception neither are they the rule however the last few years of the boom saw some of the worst quality building imaginable.

You need to know what the sinking fund is like and an idea of the percentage of owner occupier versus tenanted property.

Its very difficult to buy anything at a remove of that distance,you need feet on the ground for what is a truly significant purchase,if it were me I would rent for a few months on my return before making any decision to buy,get a feel for the area and for prices etc.

I feel that you may have overbid yourself by offering €2500 more than the previous bid,again if it were me I would probably have only bid €500-€1000 max and see where that got me.

Bronte said:

Bank sale properties can take forever.

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We recently purchased from a Bank / Receiver and from the date of our offer to the completion of the sale it took just 4 weeks, so to say that any bank sale can take forever is, in my experience, not necessarily correct. Although a fair amount of poking and prodding needs to take place.

We made an offer on the Wednesday and had our offer accepted by the Receiver via the EA by Friday. Told a small white lie that we were going on holiday on the Friday and needed to have an answer at the latest then so that we could pay booking deposit before we left. There was another bidder who was contacted and given 24 hours by the EA to respond.

Bronte said:

What do you mean by being sold 'as is'.

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The Bank / Receiver will not give any guarantees and will not be able to provide the 'normal information' one would expect to get and the contract will reflect this. The main downside is that the Receiver will not know a lot about the property and will be selling on a "sold as seen" basis. It is very important that your solicitor makes sure planning, building regulations and access issues are very well cleared up before you buy, as getting them tidied up afterwards can be expensive and time consuming.

Knuttell is right, you need to be very assertive with the EA if you really want this apartment. Give the EA a deadline to get back to you with an answer and confirm that you are a cash buyer and ready to proceed.

It will be to your advantage if you have already instructed a solicitor and can provide contact details to EA and if you have 'proof of funds' ready for the EA, but only provide this after your offer has been accepted.

Thank you all for your good advice. I feel purchasing a property in Ireland is very difficult and not as easy as many think.
I will try and respond to each of you to clarify some of the issues you have raised.
Knuttell: We are already living in Ireland and renting a granny flat. We know the town and we have some inside info from a person living in the Apt Block. It is a concrete building, high owner occupier. We have done lots of research including research on the Management Co. EA has stated Bank wants to leave Apt on sale for 3 weeks for transparency. Closure will be this coming Sat. No Apt sold in this complex all withdrawn...prices all in high 300.000. Now down to 1/3 of that. I have taken your advice and contacted the Agent who informs me we have been out bid by a few thousand. I will make a much lower bid when EA comes back on Friday before he closes.
Bronte: Sold "as is" means we have to decorate/paint and probably install new cooker and fridge.

ryaner: Services cut off for OHS i.e. fire and burst pipes.

tober: We are in a commuter town. No Apartments coming on sale so we do not have a huge selection to choose from. This is not Dublin.

facetious: Reading your experiences makes me very anxious.....what the hell does one do? EA's seem to have the same reputation the world over. I sold my own house in the past and got a great price. Unfortunately very few people in Ireland seems to take this route. Good luck with your purchase.
We are so keen to get a place of our own...we live in a most unsuitable area, way out of town and all the facilities we require. This on top of being lonely and missing family left thousands of miles away. We are afraid we may take a property that is less than what we want as we get more desperate.

Sorry for this moan......just feeling so out of control, EA's have the upper hand no matter what.
My sincere thanks to you all for giving me your precious time.

delgirl said:

We recently purchased from a Bank / Receiver and from the date of our offer to the completion of the sale it took just 4 weeks, so to say that any bank sale can take forever is, in my experience, not necessarily correct. Although a fair amount of poking and prodding needs to take place.

We made an offer on the Wednesday and had our offer accepted by the Receiver via the EA by Friday. Told a small white lie that we were going on holiday on the Friday and needed to have an answer at the latest then so that we could pay booking deposit before we left. There was another bidder who was contacted and given 24 hours by the EA to respond.

The Bank / Receiver will not give any guarantees and will not be able to provide the 'normal information' one would expect to get and the contract will reflect this. The main downside is that the Receiver will not know a lot about the property and will be selling on a "sold as seen" basis. It is very important that your solicitor makes sure planning, building regulations and access issues are very well cleared up before you buy, as getting them tidied up afterwards can be expensive and time consuming.

Knuttell is right, you need to be very assertive with the EA if you really want this apartment. Give the EA a deadline to get back to you with an answer and confirm that you are a cash buyer and ready to proceed.

It will be to your advantage if you have already instructed a solicitor and can provide contact details to EA and if you have 'proof of funds' ready for the EA, but only provide this after your offer has been accepted.

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delgirl,
Thanks for your advice and experience. I will do as you suggest. We already have a solicitor. Did you get into a bidding war or was there only two of you bidding? It's so unfair that one can't see the bids....we just have to take the EA's word for it. EA says he will contact us on Friday with highest bid received as he says a few more are viewing the Apt. We are still within our budget but it's scary now!
Thanks again delgirl.

IrishAussie said:

, EA's have the upper hand no matter what.
.

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I don't agree with this sentiment at all. It's a buyers market currently. You mention a commuter town, I'm amazed a two bed would cost 100K. Apartments, apart from Dublin are at rock bottom prices. Is this in a Dublin commuter town as that's the only reason I could see an apartment fetching such a price.

Are you sure a house wouldn't suit you most better. There are heaps of problems in relation to a lot of apartments. Badly built, problems with parking and disputues about who is responsible for what, and in a lot of cases management companies that are not paid by the owners and unable to upkeep the common areas.

If you are very happy with the apartment then bid what YOU think it is worth as long as you know there are no issues in that particular build. If you're outbid so be it, there will always be another property. Try not to put so much emotion into it, that can be difficult, but you need to be more detached.

I believe Delgirls bank experience is very unusual, as I've been enquiring about property in the last year and know that banks are holding up sales. The whole world has turned on it's head and now an estate agent will tell you they are waiting on the bank, and you think that it's for a mortgage, but no, it's for the bank to give permisssion for a sale.

Because of your age, I think it would be important that the apartment is on the ground floor, but I've been told by EA's that these command the lessor price because of security issues.

IrishAussie said:

EA has stated Bank wants to leave Apt on sale for 3 weeks for transparency. Closure will be this coming Sat.

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The info about the 3 weeks and this coming Saturday wasn't in your original post, that's fair enough as the bank wants/needs to achieve the best price possible.

IrishAussie said:

I have contacted the Agent who informs me we have been out bid by a few thousand. I will make a much lower bid when EA comes back on Friday before he closes.

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Before I would make another bid, I would ask the EA what position the current highest bidder/other bidders is/are in. The bank will probably prefer to deal with a cash buyer who is not in a chain (doesn't have a property to sell or one that is sale agreed and may take some time to close or the sale may fall through) and, again in my experience only, may be prepared to accept a slight lower offer from the cash buyer to progress the sale more quickly.

IrishAussie said:

Did you get into a bidding war or was there only two of you bidding?

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The property I bought had an open viewing on the Thursday and the following week on Tuesday. The EA had received one bid from Thursday's viewing and, as there were around 30 people viewing on the Tuesday, I put a higher bid in on Wednesday and asked for a response on Friday. There were other interested bidders, one who was willing to pay more than I was, but who hadn't yet got mortgage approval and I had proof of funds and solicitor ready to go.

Bronte is right, bid only what you think the apartment is worth - it might help you to decide by having a pre-purchase survey carried out as the apartment hasn't been occupied for some time. It shouldn't cost much - maybe around €250 - but may help make your decision easier.

There were other interested bidders, one who was willing to pay more than I was, but who hadn't yet got mortgage approval and I had proof of funds and solicitor ready to go.

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Were you not afraid of getting gazumped or did you just show proof of the amount required ? There could be a danger that the EA would up the price if they saw you had a bit more to spend.

elcato said:

Were you not afraid of getting gazumped or did you just show proof of the amount required ? There could be a danger that the EA would up the price if they saw you had a bit more to spend.

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Transferred the exact amount of my offer to a current account and took the statement from that account with me.

Yes, it's a very bad idea to let them know how much you have to spend, although I would never tell them that that's my final offer either. You have to play the game with your cards very close to your chest.

Hi All responders
Thank you for all your advice...I will try to give further info re your queries as follows:
We have researched this property and location thoroughly including builder, architect, management co, cost of Apts in the facility etc.
This is a very desirable ground floor Apt,2 double beds, 2 bath, 915 sq.f.t with large balcony and patio in beautiful gardens and not overlooked. We have several family friends in the town as well as a friend who is resident in the Apt. Complex. All give very favourable reports. No Apts have ever sold in Complex due to high prices demanded. Got info on Collapso. In fact there are no Apartments in the town for sale or of this quality.
We do not want to live in a house as we will be travelling overseas to USA and OZ and want to be able to lock up and go, no gardens maintain etc. This is a gated complex and very secure.
I know, I know, you are going to tell me no property is fully secure but at least it is more difficult to enter...this place is like Fort Knox!
Thank you all for your interest and wise advice.
Wishing you good fortune and take good care of yourselves.
IrishAussie

IrishAussie said:

All give very favourable reports. No Apts have ever sold in Complex due to high prices demanded.

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That seems contradictory,where are these favourable reports coming from if not from experience?
The fact that nowt has been sold would bother me esp if I were planning on living there,what's to prevent the bank selling it lock stock and barrell to Cluid or some other housing charity?

IrishAussie said:

Thank you all for your interest and wise advice.
Wishing you good fortune and take good care of yourselves.
IrishAussie

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I think you have already made up your mind so best of luck with it and it will very likely work out very well for you both.

my recent experience

i have read through the thread and found there to be a lot of scaremongering and negativity.

I recently bought an apartment in a Dublin suburb, its a two bed bank sale, likewise the utilities had been switched off which I would not see as a cause of concern but rather a normal procedure, it does mean you cant check appliances and plumbing, it also means that there may be an additional charge in reconnection, I had to get a reci cert in addition to paying reconnection to electricity.

in my case as I said it was a bank sale so absolutely no effort was made to present the property for sale, which was a major advantage, no attempt was made to paper over any cracks, so I didn't even bother paying for a surveyor to look at it, instead I viewed it three times with friends. The apartment is approximately eight years old so any structural problems would be apparent at this stage.

as regards my experience with the state agent I think some of the comments are bull****. estate agents want apartments to sell and collect their commission, its not in their interest to hang onto them for an extra couple of weeks to go through several viewings to increase their commission by a couple of hundred at most, when its a bank sale the seller is not trying to squeeze out an extra few bob nor do they have an emotional attachment, my experience is the seller will go sale agreed promptly but may be lethargic on the paperwork when it comes to signing the contracts.

You seem to have a lot of local knowledge and done your research and are happy. So as far as im concerned you've ticked all the boxes.

The one caveat I would have is you've said its ground floor, I rented in Dublin city for years and swore I would never buy a ground floor apartment. Im living on the second floor for 6 months and one observation ive made is that practically all the ground floor apartments always have the blinds closed and that's not my idea of living aswell as the concerns for groundfloor breakins