Oak

T

Teabag

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Why is it that almost everyone that is building or renovating houses these days are using Oak wood for floors, doors, kitchens, stairs etc ? I cant understand this. There cant be enough Oak left in Ireland to cope with this demand - indeed I would hope Oak are not being felled in Ireland anymore - so I have to assume that we are importing all this Oak - where from ? Are we destroying Oak forests in other countries ? Why cant we use Irish forests and recycable wood e.g. Pine ? Is Oak that much better than other more environmentally friendly alternatives ? Seems to me that the Celtic Cubs have to have Oak because its the most expensive and to keep up with their friends. I am renovating soon and intend to use pine everywhere I think - am I the only one ?
 
I am renovating soon and intend to use pine everywhere I think - am I the only one ?
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Yes you are ;)

Seriously when we bought our house 3 years ago and was looking at timber floors we got a great deal in solid oak flooring and have always preferred the look of that timber over pine.Used Ash for our kitchen cupbords. There was no element of snobbery in my decision it was made purely from what I preferred the look of....
 
Teabag said:
Is Oak that much better than other more environmentally friendly alternatives ?
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How do you know that oak (imported or otherwise) is necessarily not environmentally friendly? Or that pine is? Isn't the some criticism of the latter due to acidification of the soil planted with pine? I suspect that (as ever) it's not a case of something being environmentally friendly or not but rather there being a continuum of environmentally friendliness and a set of trade-offs that apply.
 
ClubMan said:
How do you know that oak (imported or otherwise) is necessarily not environmentally friendly? Or that pine is? Isn't the some criticism of the latter due to acidification of the soil planted with pine? I suspect that (as ever) it's not a case of something being environmentally friendly or not but rather there being a continuum of environmentally friendliness and a set of trade-offs that apply.
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Indeed, Pine forests in Ireland do cause considerable problems that were not envisaged when the government introduced the re-forestation programme. Apart from acidification, the pine needles get into the streams and run down to the rivers and destroy fish breeding grounds because they are very slow to decompose and the streams and rivers cant cope with them. Its a huge problem in Connemara at the moment. Which is why deciduous forests are being planted more these days.

But my main question is : Where are we getting all this oak from ?? It would be a shame to think we are destroying another country's oak forests like we did our own. Or do we care where we source it from ?
 
Teabag said:
But my main question is : Where are we getting all this oak from ?? It would be a shame to think we are destroying another country's oak forests like we did our own. Or do we care where we source it from ?
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I'd imagine it's imported. From where I don't know offhand. I also assume that at least some of it may come from sustainable forests. But you're correct - most people don't ask/care as far as I know.
 
My oak chinese Oak! At the time the price and look of the product was of more importance than the source. There was junkers there for 4 times the price and this was ruled out for this reason. Got my timber from Brookes in Cork and asking whether it was from a sustainable source was not at the top of our priority list at the time.
 
I tend to agree with Teabag in principle- must we have solid oak floors, doors, skirting and trim to match? I see no reason to have solid oak doors when an engineered or veneered option can be equally attractive and uses less material in its production. For my part the only substantial bit ofoak we have in our house is a kitchen table and chairs, which were very expensive but are solid and should last us a lifetime. However bad and all as house owners are for contributing to deforestation I think we probably only come second to the commercial sector. Pubs, hotels, restaurants, shops etc use expensive hardwoods in their fit-out with absolute abandon. Cherry, oak, ash and other hardwoods are used for everything from trim to furniture and fittings. The difficulty for me with this is that pubs, shops etc tend to have a shelf life of only 7 years or so and when this happens all the hardwood ends up in a skip destined for landfill.
 
Can I add my 100% agreement to that last comment. I work next door to a recently renovated hotel. The quality and quantity of what went into skips was quite shocking. Surely there must be scope for a more comprehensive recycling and reusing process in the area of building materials.

I wonder is there scope for somebody to set up 5 acres of ultra cheap warehousing\hardstand within 30 miles of Dublinto take this stuff in, grade it, batch it and offer for resale.
 
MOB said:
I wonder is there scope for somebody to set up 5 acres of ultra cheap warehousing\hardstand within 30 miles of Dublinto take this stuff in, grade it, batch it and offer for resale.
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Yes, you would wonder and it's something that I often thought would make a good business but no, it won't work. To collect the timber, grade it, de-nail it and process it for resale would probably cost as much as virgin timber sourced from endangered plantations and that's a fact. Like all other areas of waste reduction, recycling, energy conservation etc. only when an undesirable activity (like overuse of hardwood) becomes punitively expensive does the consumer look at their use of dwindling resources. When hardwood forests reach dangerously low levels and thus become much more expensive, then and only then will our use of such materials be considered seriously. At the moment tonnes of perfectly good softwood timber (pallets, packing material, C&D waste etc) is routinely sent to landfill. I know there a very small number of operators who collect this type of waste for reuse (as a constituent of chip board, for use as fuel and animal bedding). However at least with TV programmes like EcoEye etc public awareness is improving.
 
My brother works in flooring and they are a bit frustrated by the number of customers who insist on oak, instead of checking out other woods like
Jatoba, Merbau which are also for sale.

None of the oak comes from Ireland, a lot comes from Canada and South American countries.

According to the brother, pubs are notorious for ripping up hardwood floors
and replacing them quickly, but the wood is often not reusable, as it
is warped after a few years of beer puddles and cleaners leaving the floors
sopping wet when cleaning.

You are right though most people dont care what the environmental
impact of there floor is.
 
Over here in England there are many architectural salvage companies which resell most materials - and not cheaply!

I believe that the reason people want oak floors is that they last more than one lifetime. As noted elsewhere, our floors have been down for 50+ years and apart from some damage after a leaking central heating pipe there have been no problems.
To rectify the problem after the above incident, my wife found out that our son's first school was being demolished so I went round and bought some of the old oak blocks that had been used in building the school.
I was quoted £6 per metre so bought enough to relay the damaged blocks and have plenty to spare should I have a similar problem in future.
 
BillK said:
I believe that the reason people want oak floors is that they last more than one lifetime.
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Problem is most hardwood floors will never see a lifetime's use down on the floor, in this cash rich, disposable society where fashion is fickle! Oak might be unfashionable in ten years time so up it comes and down goes some other indonesian species...
 
It saddens me that we are knocking some other country's oak forest without even knowing or caring where. If anybody hears where Irish builders merchants source their oak, please let me know. I am going to ask around myself.

Reminds me of the Hoki Birds Eye fish fingers. Cods stocks are seriously depleted in British Isles so a new advertising campaign explained that they would start using Hoki instead which tastes like cod and is plentiful down in New Zealand. So the plan was to leave the poor cod alone in Europe and instead rape the seas of Hoki down in NZ...
 
Just bought a load of sawn white oak to make some furniture from McMahon's, who seem to be one of the big players here in importing timber. All their oak comes from North America, they state that they source from sustainable forests.
Leo
 
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