NPPR Payment with relative living in house

Hi,

How to I prove that a relative has been living in the house, or do I have to declare it at all?

Thanks

According to the link below, you are only exempt from paying the NPPR tax if the relative lives there rent free, and you either live there too, or you live no more than 2 km from the property. If those criteria do not apply to you, you owe the NPPR tax, regardless of who lives in the house.

https://www.nppr.ie/Faq.aspx#fk3

I imagine you could prove to the the NPPR folks who lives where by doing the following:

1. Draw up a formal lease agreement between you and the relative, but set the rent to zero.

2. Produce ESB, gas, Eircom, UPC etc bills in their name at that address. Produce bank or An Post statements, or a drivers license that give that address as their home.

3. Produce the above for yourself, giving your own address.

4. Produce copy of your own lease or mortgage agreement stating where you live.

(The Dept of Social Protection and the drivers lisc folks accept the above as proof of residence. I don't know why the NPPR folks would require something else. )

5. Provide a print out of Google maps of the distance between House A and House B to prove that your own home is no more than 2 kms from the other one.


I would imagine that anyone who owns a second home owes the NPPR tax, unless they can prove that they qualify for an exemption. I could be wrong. Why not call your local county council and ask them if its up to you to declare it and then prove then why you are exempt from it? Or is it up to them to come after you for it, whereby you then produce the paperwork showing why you are exempt?

If you are not exempt from it, declare it and pay it as soon as you can. They will find out about you sooner or later, and the fines for non payment are higher than the tax itself.

Thanks beffers, great answers..I have been onto the council and I was told that I don't have to produce any proof, I just don't declare it..but I would not be happy with that just in case it came back to haunt me..

The only problem is now that I owe 3 years which is going to cost around 1600 (not including 2013) is there some way I can negotiate this amount?

Thanks

I doubt it. The tax itself, and the fines for not paying it are fixed amounts mandated by the government. There is no harm in asking the council if they will take a lower amount, but I doubt if they will, or are legally are able to. If word gets out that people can negotiate their own settlements if they fall into arrears, where is the motivation for everyone else to pay?

Why on earth should you pay a tax you are not liable for? If your situation fits the exemption then why would you do it. I have similar situation in our family and I have not even given it a second thought, we fit the exemption and that's it as far as I am concerned. Surely it is easily prove who lives where voting records, bills etc., every Tom Dick and Harry knows where each person lives, both on all documentation and local knowledge, Gardai, Postman etc if it was ever queried.

How should I interpret "no more than 2 kms" ? If the houses are 2.3 kms apart by road but 1.7 kms on Google maps as the crow flies then which distance would be used.

wbbs said:

? If your situation fits the exemption then why would you do it. I have similar situation in our family and I have not even given it a second thought, we fit the exemption and that's it as far as I am concerned.

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Personally I'd want that in writing from the local council. And one of these days when property is sold some kind of proof will be required by the purchaser's solicitor. My guess this proof will have to come from the local authorites. They used to do this for rates.

The penalties attached to this are too great for one to 'rely' on one's own interpretation of the rules.

But it's not an interpretation of the rules, the rules say if family member is living in house and is less than 2 km so fits criteria of the rule.

I am in a similiar situation and don't know what to do- I own a house that I bought to help out my folks who were going through a tough time. This is their family home and while my name is on the deeds-everything else is in their name and has been for over 40yrs. They are both OAP's, on state pension only and obviously there is no rent/income coming to me.

It is in another county, so obviously not within the 2k radius.

I drew up legal documents at the time, that state until both parents are deceased, they continue to remain insitu as previously.

It would seem to me that you should have been paying the NPPR since it's introduction, it's not your Principal Private Residence as you don't live there, you're not within the 2km limit so you owe the money and should address the issue before further penalties are incurred.

allie, provided the document you drew up is sufficient to give an "exclusive right of residence" to your parents, then you are not subject to the nppr. This sort of situation is dealt with in the FAQ section on many County Council sites. The following was taken from Wexford's

30. The occupier in my property has an exclusive Right of Residence, am I liable?

Assuming that a formal right of residence is in place and as such the property cannot be sold or rented while this is in place, an owner would not at present qualify as an 'owner' under the terms of the act. Owner is defined as a 'person who is entitled to receive the rent of the property or, where the property is not let, would be so entitled if it were so let'. In addition to there being a formal right of residence, that right would have to be exclusive, that is that the occupier can live in the house for the rest of their lives and have exclusive use of the house during that time.
An exclusive right of residence means that the owner does not have the right to reside in his / her own property and that the occupier has the right to live there on his or her own.

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Nige, thank you so much, obviously the fact that there is no option to register the exemption- the best I can do is have all the documentation to hand and ask the local council to confirm?

Allie

I would email the relevant local authority and explain the situation. They should confirm that you are not liable and you will have this in case of any dispute later on.

I have done this with an uninhabitable property I own and there was no problem getting the confirmation.

It's better to be sure to be sure.

Callybags, I will do exactly that! I have requested a copy of agreement from the solicitor so will wait until I get that (as no doubt they will need to see a copy) and have also flagged it so that the solicitor keeps it on file.

Happy Thursday for me!!

Excellent info there Nige, think I might get relative to draw that up too as a 'belt and braces' approach just in case.

wbbs said:

Excellent info there Nige, think I might get relative to draw that up too as a 'belt and braces' approach just in case.

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I think to be fully sure you are in the clear you should get your local authority to confirm same in writing.

Hi,
How do I interpret the 2 KM distance ? Is this the straight line distance between house A and house B or is it the distance traveling by road ?

60watt said:

Hi,
How do I interpret the 2 KM distance ? Is this the straight line distance between house A and house B or is it the distance traveling by road ?

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The legislation simply says "within 2 kilometres of each other" - so if they are within 2km of each other as the crow flies then they are within 2km of each other - I don't see how anyone could argue they're not!

Thanks Mandelbrot. That's also my interpretation.