Notional service and the supplementary pension.

As i said in earlier posts the post 1995 Supplementary pension is a an absolute mess, unlike pre1995 , the post 1995 retiree will have to deal with social welfare + there former employer + keep up with revenue to ensure their tax allowances are correct, and when they hit 65 will have to go at it again, i dont think if one tried you could make it as complicated.
In my own case i am 62yrs old, having completed 90% service recieving the occupational pension (plus national wage agreement % rises) and the supplementary pension (No % increase since retirement), i have 42yrs PRSI Contributions ie post 1995 plus private sector, so when/If i reach 66 i will get a full contributory OAP which if calculated today would be circa 2.5k more than my Supplementary.
As to notional service i purchased 4 yrs which was paid for weekly , then I stopped when the crash came so came to 4yrs in total, again No information was supplied by employer to say Notional Purchase would Not benefit your Supplementary pension & i calculate that my Supplementary pension on retirement was based on , transferred service, purchased service and actual service
 
So is @Pont62 saying that notional service makes no difference at all? That only your occupational pension gets credited for both actual and notional and it's pot luck with the rest? You can't even buy back PRSI contributions beyond something like 5 years and notional doesn't exist for PRSI contributions unlike service years.

I'm not a figures person, so what is the total gross pension in the example Pont62 attaches?

I have since been on to the Pensions people in the ASTI as well as several others and they claim that the supplementary pension does make up the shortfall. That it exists to bridge the gap for those who don't have all the PRSI contributions. Remember there will be pre 95 retirees whose service is made up of actual and notional and they don't have this problem, they will get the full value for the total. The intention is not to discriminate the post 95 people.

So who is right and who is wrong?
 
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I got confirmation this morning from Pensions in the DES, namely those in charge of my pension, that yes the supplementary pension does bridge the gap and bring you up to the maximum SCP in cases where PRSI contributions are lacking. This was in response to a detailed email from me explaining about my 28 years actual, 10 notional and being short PRSI contributions. Their response backs up what I was told from the ASTI Pensions people and other financial experts, so after several sleepless nights I'm just going to hope for the best, there is no more I can do as apart from the service record I got from the DES [which also counted all service plus top rate of SCP] the DES won't let you get your final figures until you actually retire.

So @stoves1 and @Pont62, I know you mean well and Stoves1 has his/her own experience to go by, but I think you're coming from your own interpretations of the wording around the supplementary pensions and notional service and while you may not be fully wrong, you may not be fully right either as it seems to be calculated on a case by case basis. And the notional service being "excluded" bit is not as simple as that. @Pont62 you scared the hell out of me with those attached figures, can you tell us where you got them from please?

But this is definitely one to watch and unions need to be on top of it as it's a lot more straightforward and a lot easier to retire and retire with peace of mind if you are pre 1995 and that is plain wrong. We are only now at the start of the post 95 retirees so I expect we will all hear a lot more as time goes by.
 
Hi Acequion,

I accept that there is a lack of knowledge, confusion, and concern over the issue of Supplementary Pensions, and as a result there will always be the chance of anyone misinterpreting the appropriate legislation. If DES say that your purchased notional service can be counted in the calculation of a supplementary pension, to your benefit, then you should of course accept that. However, it does seem to clearly contradict the following guidance:

a. advice from DPER "that service acquired via the purchase of notional service scheme, is not counted when calculating supplementary pension". There are equivalent provisions in the Letter to Personnel Officers dated 31 July 1997 in respect of Established Civil Servants and a similar letter in respect of the non-established state employees.”

b. the DES website contains guides to superannuation schemes for teachers that clearly states that "Notional Service is excluded in the calculation of a supplementary pension."

I'm not sure how the above can be considered ambiguous.

As far as the figures I provided, they were just an example using the methodology to calculate a supplementary pension, and the current co-ordination rate, i.e. €48,231.71(€277.30 x 52.18 x 3.333333).

Over the next decade the number of people retiring under post 95 schemes will increase significantly, and if experience to date is anything to go by, it's going to be a challenging for those claiming a supplementary pension. That will only continue after retirement (as I know) when it comes to getting clarification on how supplementary pensions will increase in subsequent years to reflect pay agreements.

To be honest, I'm not sure why I paid my unions dues, they should have been on top of these post 95 scheme issues long before now.
 
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