NO WMD

Re: Iraq.

Here I go off topic again but Saudi Arabia beheads people in more or less the same way. The main difference is that it's legal there. There was quite a bit of public outcry pre 9/11 about this but for some reason it seems to have faded away.

Why is there such outcry by the Bush government about the beheading of hostages and not a dickey bird about the continued practice of beheading criminals by the house of Saud? Is it because they are their biggest allies in the middle east who also happen to be long time business associates (since the early 70's) of the Bush family and are huge investors in Dick Chaney's former employer?

Just thought...

Iraq

Piggy claims "We (Sic ) have slaughtered THOUSANDS of innocent people in IRAQ by our bombs ". You admit you have not seen them on TV Piggy. What makes you so certain than THOUSANDS of INNOCENT people were killed by our ( not their bombs ! ) bombs there? Perhaps you prefer to believe what you want to believe?

I really think you should take a more balanced view Piggy, especially when it is obvious you were never there. It reminds me of the propoganda about ten years ago that a few Noraid members used to put out in the United States about the "war" in Northern Ireland - you would think reading it that the catholics there were nearly treated as bad as the jews in Germany in WW2, and that the IRA was a regular army etc.

//

Piggy, you really need to learn to ignore silly trolls like John. After all...what would you know about the thousands of Iraqi's who the coalition have killed...you weren't there :rolleyes

murdered iraqis

"What makes you so certain than THOUSANDS of INNOCENT people were killed by our ( not their bombs ! ) bombs there?"

Are you a complete idiot John or are you just trying to come across as one? Or is it just that trolls do this sort of thing? Say things that are the opposite of the truth just to get a rise? If you're not a troll you might want to join the human race.

Surrender

Just heard on the radio that the Italian FM has announced plans for the withdrawal of Italian troops from Iraq. Remember a month ago the big celebrations in Rome when the two freed Italians returned home? Anybody smell the same rat that I do?

Soon there will only be two, for ultimately there are only two major nations who really, really believe in democracy. The Club Med and Eastern European countries are new to this democracy thing and don't really see what all the fuss is about.

democracy

" for ultimately there are only two major nations who really, really believe in democracy"

Your democracy pal. Not mine. They dont care a rats ass about the iraqis. All they care about is their oil. If they have to kill tens of thousands of iraqis to do so and stick a democracy sticker on it for the fools to swallow then they'll do it. Its murder when americans are killed, but its democracy when iraqis are murdered by the west. Makes sense eh ?

Yee hah - riding into the sunset

Quote: "for ultimately there are only two major nations who really, really believe in democracy. The Club Med and Eastern European countries are new to this democracy thing and don't really see what all the fuss is about"


Only the truly naive believe the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language that comes out of Bushes mouth. Anyone who believes that the war in Iraq has anythig to do with democracy has been watching too many Hollywood feel good movies where the Americans win the day and the flag gets waved about a whole lot. Welcome to brainwash city. Population you.

Bush didn't even win a democratic election democratically. Those Eastern European countries know far more about democracy than those poor Americans do.

Iraq

Even the worst of American democracy is still better than Saddams torture and rule. Remember Kuwait? Remember the Kurds ?
( some imbeciles will call me a troll whatever that is , but democracy will reign supreme )

Zeus - king of the piggyists

Your democracy pal. Not mine.

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That says it all. Piggyists fall into two categories, those who naively do not appreciate how precious our US/UK style of democracy is and those who actually have contempt for it. I put Piggy in the former naive camp and Zeus in the nihilistic latter camp.

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Remember Kuwait? Remember the Kurds ?

Remember camp x-ray, remember bombing Iraq, remember depleted DU weapons... hang on a minute... all that stuff is still going on!

YD falls into the category of those that like to pigeon-hole.

Re: .

Remember the Kurds

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Of course we do!
We still have the receipts for the weapons.

Isn't funny that we don't see Sudan being linked with Al Queda, no mention of WMD's there. No need to invade that country to spread freedom and democracy and stop the government killing it's people.

-Rd

Re: Zeus - king of the piggyists

...two categories, those who naively do not appreciate how precious our US/UK style of democracy is...

Not surprisingly, as per usual - the nail is about two miles over there and you're over here hitting air with all your might.

It's precisely because people do value democracy that they are opposed to this war and all it stands for.


I see you're also still insistent on carrying on with your childish jibes. It speaks volumes as to your level of ability to address the real issues in this debate. Perhaps it's just much easier to troll away to your hearts content.

Iraq.

Dear Piggy,

I agree that you do not appreciate how precious our UK / US style of democracy is. It is not perfect, but it is the best there is. Nobody can argue that Saddam was one of the worst, most evil dictators the world has ever seen. He gassed the Kurds ( in his own country ), invaded neighbouring countries eg Kuwait and interfered in Israel by paying large amounts to the families of suicide bombers etc. He killed and tortured many of his own countrymen. Blair + Bush are attempting to restore democracy there and remain there at the invitation of the present Iraqi leadership, until after the next Iraqi elections at least. You have presumably been educated and brought up in the west, and enjoy a certain amount of freedom. If you side with the islamic militants, you are really giving a kick in the teeth to the west. Why dont you go to live in the middle east and see what it is like ? I suggest it is obvious you have never been there.

Johnie boy

:lol
Piggy...you can't argue with this level of stupidity.

Re: Iraq.

Nobody can argue that Saddam was one of the worst, most evil dictators the world has ever seen.

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Do you want to rephrase that?

He gassed the Kurds

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With the help of the West.

invaded neighbouring countries eg Kuwait

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So who get's to decided when an invasion is Bad
(Iraq Vs Kuwait), and Good (USA/UK Vs Iraq).
The UN???? International Law?????
Or do we just give the US and the UK free reign to invade wherever they choose, without putting forward a credible case to justify the invasion?

How long before they start toppling Democratically Elected Leaders and replacing them with Dictators????

Actually The US have already done that decades ago in Chile.

There are lots of dead Irish men and women who'd turn in their graves to hear you handing out that sort of latitude to any country, much less to Westminster.

(Sure they're not a threat to us any more, let them invade who they like).

If you side with the islamic militants

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Ah the old "you're either with is or you're with the terrorists" line. Fair play to George, he know's how to hook his target market.

How about being with the people who believe that preemptive war, on flimsy evidence, without the backing of the international community is bad for everyone. And plays into
the hands of the very terrorists he claims to be fighting.

If the UK was fighting the IRA by invading the Republic, bombing Dublin etc. Do you think we'd be closer to or further from a settlement in the North. Do you think they IRA would be stronger or weaker?

There are a lot of people who detest terrorism and detest the IRA who would pick up a Bottle, or a Stone, or a Gun or a Bomb if Dublin was occupied in the morning.

War does two things very well. It creates terrorists, and it destroys the infrasturcture to contain them.

Ask yourself why some countries get invaded and others don't even though the excuse applies equally or more so to the countries that we don't invade.

When you've pondered that and come up with an explaination, let me know.

-Rd

Re: Iraq.

What Bush has done is given every dictator and murderer a huge incentive to develop or buy WMD's so that they will have a big enough stick to keep America out.

Re: Iraq

I remember seeing Denis Halliday on a Pilger documentary saying that the common answer among students of history in the US to the question of how many people were killed in the Vietnam War is 50,000. This is the amount of US soldiers who were killed but it ignores the circa 2 million Vietnamese who were killed. The same thing is happening today. There is no accurate figure for how many innocent Iraqis have been killed since the US/UK invasion, but many believe it is in the neighbourhood of 10,000. If this continues there will be nobody left to vote in the upcoming elections. If you are an average Joe Iraqi, would you feel safer today or would you feel safer under the old regieme? None of us have to live there so none of us are an authority on the situation. It is not a war on terrorism in Iraq, it's an occupation.

Iraq is far better off

If you are an average Joe Iraqi, would you feel safer today or would you feel safer under the old regieme?

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I know I am now sounding like a broken record - but we are told that pre the invasion millions of Iraqi children were dying because of wicked United Nations sanctions. I think that the loss of 10,000 insurgents and collateral sympathisers in Fallujah and Nasiriah is in a completely different league to the infanticide that Iraq was suffering, so to answer your question the great majority of the 17 million Josama Iraqis feel far better today and have a great hope for their future.

Re: Iraq is far better off

10,000 insurgents

I beg your pardon? Insurgents? If you class women and children who were blown to pieces by allied bombing campaigns that is...

According to most reports there are only a small number of "insurgents" in Iraq.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...672298.stm

"The UK-based Iraq Body Count - run on a shoestring by about 20 academics and peace activists - is one of the most widely-quoted sources of information on the civilian toll.

It says 13-15,000 ordinary Iraqis have died since the invasion in March 2003, figures compiled from media reports of thousands of incidents.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
Civilian toll estimates at 09/04
Iraq Body Count: 13-15,000
Brookings Inst: 10-27,000
UK foreign secretary: >10,000
People's Kifah >37,000

Where sources report differing figures, a minimum and a maximum are given."

Iraq

These insurgents would not have been killed if they were not insurgents. THe 7 civilians in Loughgall who were killed as they sat on top of a JCB would not have been killed if (a) they were not holding AK47's and holding a bomb in the digger bucket or (b) they were just civilians.
Most Iraqis want peace, they want elections and they know they need the coalition forces there to keep the insurgents - many of whom are not Iraqi - at bay.