'No vacancies' for Bulgarians

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Ancutza

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Forget about investing in Bulgaria unless you can apply for a tourist visa to go out and do it yourself! If tonights utterances by the Bulgarian government are anything to go by then there will be no-one (Irish or English) out there to sell you a property come the new year.

The Bulgarian government are threatening to impose similar restrictions upon Irish and UK citizens seeking to work out there (e.g estate agents) as are being applied to their nationals by the UK and Irish governments. (source: www.bbc.co.uk) Fair play lads, I say!!

But if ever you needed an indication of the fire-brand, knee-jerk, reactionism permeating Bulgarian politics and society as a whole (not to mention their home-spun mafia) then there you have it.

What a wonderful, stable investmernt climate you are all buying into! Best of luck with it!

Personally I wouldn't buy an icecream on the beach out there!
 
Irish or British wishing to work in Bulgaria go through pretty rigorous regimes, so fairs fair, but they can visit freely on either side (but we'd always to buy stamps for it).
 
Almo, I think you are missing the point! If, after January, we are all a part of the EU then shouldn't everyone have the right to work where ever they so wish??

The example you quote above relates to the present status quo NOT as it should be after 1st January 2007.

Bulgaria's reaction is fully understandable but it is nonetheless worrying regarding the shape of things to come.

Romania's PM, Calin Tariceanu, had the good grace to call the UK decision simply "unfortunate".

In his boots I'd like to have just 5 minutes in a locked room with Messers Reid & Martin.
 
No, I think it's perfectly okay for a country to put up restrictions, because it relates to the workers, not tourists. The EU is for free exchange of visits, ideas etc, workforce is a different matter and it is within the rights of a country to avoid taking on the problems of other governments. It was only last year that the UK lifted a visa only restriction on Croatian nationals as they'd been burned so many times by them, so with the attendant fear of a wave of emigrants from such countries (Balkans) it's not surprising there are worries and restrictions. Until the countries in the region celan up their border problems it's going to be a little difficult.
 
Well thats all fine and dandy but Croatia continues to 'dream' about EU membership. Read on and make up your own mind why.....

[broken link removed]

A fine man Mr Chris Patton and, whilst we're on the topic, Mr Neil Kinnock in Bosnia.

Honest men trying to make sense of banana republics.
 

The whole EU concept was based on labour mobility among members. Like New York state saying Texans will not be allowed to work there.

EU is now admitting it made a big mistake bringing both these countries in without having them do sufficient purgatory time first.
 
Maine, the whole Balkans is a mess, you have 2 countries about to join run by communist elite and mafia, a bunch of others on the doorstep who have just gotten over knocking the hell out of one another, and another big Muslim nation that is the gateway to a lot of trouble. The EU should have left the Balkans to develop as a neighbour area and then in 10-15 years brought them in, but too many have vested interests in messing about with common folk. And it's a time when reality is not high on the agenda.
 
Vested interest showing through there old boy, typical Balkan attitude, knock toehrs in an effort to make your own mess seem less shocking, Croatians try it all the time and sadly have Bulgaira and Romania to use as examples, as well as the mire that is Serbia.

 
Ancutza said:
Almo, I think you are missing the point! If, after January, we are all a part of the EU then shouldn't everyone have the right to work where ever they so wish??
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Tell that to the Germans,French,Italians etc.We've done our bit for the moment,nobody has taken a bigger % of easten europeans than we have when you compare populations.
We need to pause and see exactly what we want these workers for, because it looks to me that many are just here to sustain a house price bubble.
The irish will have to learn that they can't just live off the backs of poorly paid foreign immigrants and equity release.One day soon irish people will have to work in Spar again !
 
Quite right Maine! If Romanians and Bulgarians are denied the same rights to work as other nationals of EU state then where does that leave the EU? The bottom line is that the EU has dragged both countries, kicking and screaming, into the 'club'. Neither society is ready for it but their politicians want a ladleful of the gravy train and the EU wants unfettered access to their consumers.

The shameful work permit scheme just shows how rotten Brussels is at its core.

Almo, who do you think runs Romania? The former communist elite and/or the mafia? Think carefully before answering! This is NOT a multiple choice question and you WILL be expected to back-up your responses or appear to be hopelessly un-informed.

Can't wait to hear your response!
 
Ancutza said:
Almo, I think you are missing the point! If, after January, we are all a part of the EU then shouldn't everyone have the right to work where ever they so wish??
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In an ideal world, yes.

In reality, however, an EU citizen can set up their own company anywhere in the EU and work for themselves. So Bulgarians and Romanians with the wherewithal can set up a company in Ireland and then contract for work and employ themselves.
 
nobody should blame either the uk or ireland for calling a halt to immigration from the two new accession countries until the dust settles. I suspect that our social welfare ( particulary child benefit and the rules that apply to it) might on its own be an attraction to a family person who has 3 or 4 children in either of the two new countries. up to now we have
managed to attract younger, educated,and willing workers from latvia, lithuania and poland ( where did the estionians go ) but our experiences of Romanians in particular to date would not indicate that that trend will continue. our social services hospitals, schools etc are creaking to bursting point as it is and during the past summer I know of a number of young leaving cert students who couldnt find the traditional summer work that was previously available to them. on the whole the past 3 years have been good for us and good for the new countries, maybe the countries who 'excluded' the workers from the last accession could now make an exception for the two new member countries and give them preferential treatment or would that be expecting too much from germany/france/italy/belgium/denmark etc?
 
I'm not sure I understand why everyone is reacting so much at Ireland and Britain putting up restrictions...the majority of the other EU15 countries put up restrictions for the 10 ascension countries the last time around...so why is it a big deal if we decide to do it now...surely countries do reach a full capacity at some point...and they'll only be exploited here if they can't get jobs easily...like the mushroom pickers on the news tonite... although, I didn't catch which countries they were from.

I think its up to some other countries to open the gates a little more this time.

Or am I missing something here?
 
To be honest my point has less to do with the actions of the UK and Irish governments than it has to do with the emergence of a two-tier Europe with respect to employment.

I always thought that the ethos of the EU was one of harmonisation and fairness, a 'doing-away-with' of the barriers to trade and the free movement of human beings through other member states. I thought that one EU citizen should always be able to seek and gain employment in any other EU state.

Very sadly this seems not to be the case anymore. The rich continue to prosper and the poor remain subservient.

As a foreign national (Irish) living in Romania it is very difficult, not to say embarrassing, to have to explain such exclusive decisions to my friends, family, colleagues and neighbours.

I am particularly saddened that we, as a nation, seem to have forgotten so much of our own history when faced with others seeking a better life for themselves in our country.

Where would we be if, at the time of the famine(s) the US had similarly legislated against us or, in the '80s, the UK had sought to keep us out?

Have we really lost so much of our humanity as a race? Are we so caught up in our selves that we no longer wish to offer the hand of friendship to those less fortunate than ourselves and whatever happened to the Ireland of the welcomes?
 
ancutza: where is the work for them? is it at the expense of irish citizens? is it to benefit bad employers? where is the schools and where is the accommodation? full up is full up in any language.
 
well, yes, that's the goal, but even within the rich member states there are still plenty of barriers.
 
Ancutza said:
As a foreign national (Irish) living in Romania it is very difficult, not to say embarrassing, to have to explain such exclusive decisions to my friends, family, colleagues and neighbours.
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That's all right for you over there,but this country is bursting at the seams.The infactructure simply can't cope,the roads,schools,hospitals are all packed to capacity as it is.
By the way i do agree it seems very unfair to the ordinary romanian/bulgarian but let the french,germans,italians take some of the pressure off us first, i don't see why we have to flood this country with foreign labour just to be politically correct.
It seems to me you don't care what the quality of life is like for people at home is,as long as your "embarrasment" is saved.
 
cuchulainn said:
( where did the estionians go )
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Its GDP per capita is at $17,802, the highest of the baltic States, while its unemployment rate was 4.2% in July 2006, one of the lowest in the European Union. I think that in the north-east of the country that it is about 15%. The population is about 1.3m.

It takes just 1 Hour and 40 mins., on the katamaran, to get to Helsinki so they can work there during the week and go home at weekends. Finnish(or a version of it) would be the second language for Estonians.
 
Cuchulainn, I agree with you that probably the infrastructure in Ireland would struggle if there were a huge influx into the country of Romanians and Bulgarians but surely the government is to be blamed for this rather than the new entrants into the EU.

I really don't think that anything like the Polish phenomenom is going to occur this time around. Remember that Ireland and the UK have been the only EU member countries to apply such draconian anti-immigration poliscies over the last few years having not signed up to Schengen.

Those Romanians who wanted to work abroad (and there are 2 million of them estimated to be working in other countries) have, for the most, part left and found employment in other countries such as Spain, Italy, Austria and Germany. In fact it is alot easier for them to assimilate into the 'Latin' countries (due to similarities of language and culture) than it would be for them to do in the UK or Ireland, hence these are the destinations of choice.

The simple fact is that the EU needs Romania and Bulgaria more than they need IT. It's all about opening new markets for the EU and continual expansion offsetting the risk of implosion.

Personally I'd be delighted to have seen both countries entry delayed by another few years. Much of Romania (in particular its agricultural communities) will be IMO torn apart by EU membership.

To Watcher, it is not about saving myself from a red face! I'm married to a romanian girl and I've been out here for a number of years now. As such I have a better understanding than most of the problems facing romania and empathise with the people.

The romanians are very well aware of the poor image that their country has abroad. This in my opinion is largely due to the common misconception that Rrom (gypsies) equals romanian.

My circle are solidly middle-class with no aspirations to leave. They are, however, bewildered as to why all romanians have to be tarred with the same brush and wonder when they will be treated as equal citizens of the EU.

I'm am not so foolish as to disregard the impact that uncontrolled, mass immigration may have on a country such as Ireland but I do think that other ways of dealing with it must be found rather than the issuing of blanket 'exclusion' orders. Other EU countries seem to be managing to find solutions so why can't we?

This is the source of my embarrassment. We're seen as wanting to have our cake and eat it. We want access to their markets and the right to buy property there but heavens-above if we should think to accord them the same rights. Try explaining that to them without appearing overtly rascist!

I understand such a mind-set from the British with their colonial past but we as a nation of emmigrants?
 
tell me, how have the other EU countries dealt with the new EU countries....bar us, the uk and sweden, all EU countries said a big NO to the 10 accession countries last time out!!!!

[/quote=Ancutza;305638] I understand such a mind-set from the British with their colonial past but we as a nation of emmigrants?[/quote]
how many immigrants are we expected to take??? Ireland has absorbed as many immigrants, as a % of population, in the last 4 years as it took the UK or France 40 years to achieve. The Irish people were never asked did we want this....it was just allowed to happen.
Ruairdhi Quinn, the European face of the Labour party, said in 2003 that Ireland could expect to get about 15,000 immigrants from the 10 accession countries when they joined. He was only out by 285,000.

It's time to draw breath, and try and deal with the masses we have here right now, before taking even more in!!!!
 
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