No room in school ... so much for planning

H

Henny Penny

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I listened with interest to Liveline today to the ongoing situation in Laytown where there are children with no school to attend.

How was this allowed to happen ... and is this only going to be the tip of the iceberg. From my understanding of the situation (and I'm open to correction on this) the dept of Education has approved the provision of prefabs for temporary accommodation in the school. (Funny how temporary accommodation could be for 30 years ... but that's another point). The necessary planning for this temporary accommodation was not obtained for a number of very valid reasons.

How shortsighted was the government, and the local county council to allow a situation like this to arise? Who is to blame? Is it the children starting junior infants ... were they born in the wrong place at the wrong time? How many more cases like this will crop up when illconsider badly planned housing developments are allowed to proceed without the required infrastructure in place? Would it happen in Dun Laoghaire where the minister for education has her constituency?
 
It has happened for years all over the country. Over 20 years ago I attended primary "school" in my local church for over a year while we waited on temporary accommodation. That same temporary accommodation, which was eventually supplied, is still in use today. The problem is going to grow and grow but little will be done as the problem moves from area to area every few years...once its 'solved' in one area, it crops again somewhere else.
 
There was an aritcle on this very topic in last weekend's Irish Times review section. I think it was in the Bettystown area. Nothing surprises me anymore regarding local council planning corruption. (I don't have the link, sorry)
 
There was a piece on the 9:00 o'clock news on RTE last night about schools in Clonee / Blanchardstown having to turn children away from school (I think it was the children of up to 20 families that were refused places as the school was full)

But we have nobody to blame but ourselves - we elect our politians and get the politians we deserve - no politician (well...none that I can remember anyway) over the last 15 years has had the chutzpah to say that proper planning is more importnat than reducing taxes
 
What is more incredible is that the prefabs are not being bought by the schools but rented indefinately. and so they end up costing the department a small fortune in the long run anyhow. I would hate to be teacher or student having to face into a day in one of those.
This happened in Kill in Kildare last year - the principal placed huge signs with "this school is full" on the walls or gates
 


Yes, I saw that notice in Kill. 'New residents this school is full. For enquiries contact the Minister for Education'........ or something like that. I was a prefab school goer for many years both secondary & primary. Its not very nice......
 
I spend 8 of my 13 years of schooling in Prefabs. This is not a new problem. There were 48 of us in the class in primary school; I don't think you'd see that now.
In that bastion of free market capitalism, the USA, developers in most (if not all) states are required to build the schools, upgrade the road and rail links etc as part of their planning permission. In Texas I saw a huge site where the entire infrastructure was put in before any houses were build.
 
My local school paid 180K for 2 portacabins (I won't call them prefabs because they are portacabins) ... the dept of Education has a list of approved suppliers who can charge what they want ... it's a joke ... 180K would go a long way to build a new school
 
It seems that our government delights in failing our children. It beggars belief that they could allow incompetence and moronic decision making continue for so long without addressing the issue. In other European nations Primary schools contain gyms, specialist teaching facilities, libraries with a range of media etc all planned and laid out in landscaped grounds. In Ireland our kids are lucky if they have the use of temporary structure stuck in the corner of a piece of badly tarmacked ground. We have low expectations for our children I'm afraid.
 

Other European countries have been MUCH better off than us for a lot longer. They also pay more taxes and have proportionately fewer children. Emotive sweeping statements like this do nothing to develop the discussion. Do you think that government ministers (from any party) set out to disappoint or frustrate the electorate? Do you think any minister for education is happy to see children in prefabs? The problem is complex and so is the solution.
The core question is who should pay for the schools. Should it be the government or should it be the developer? The populist answer is that it should be the developer but almost half of the sale price of a property is taken in taxes so the money should be there for the local authority to plan properly and then ensure that the plan is implemented.
 
Purple, you state that the 'problem' is complex; it isn't, it is straightforward and uncomplicated. In fact to see it as a problem is part of the problem. What we are talking about is the provision of educational facilities for primary school children this is a simple matter of organisation for the various bodies involved. We have the funds the necessary regulatory and planning framework to do so. I appreciate that its serves some peoples interests to make the process seem like the trials of Hercules but of course it isn't.
 
Duplex said:
What we are talking about is the provision of educational facilities for primary school children
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I am awar of what we arw talking about.
Duplex said:
this is a simple matter of organisation for the various bodies involved. We have the funds the necessary regulatory and planning framework to do so.
Click to expand...
Clearly it isn't a simple matter or else it would be done. Take the school in Kill for example; is there room for an extension to the existing school? If there is room it their suitable access for parents dropping off kids? If not who is responsible for the upgrade to the road and parking area in front of the school? If you know who is responsible, (the local authority for example) do they have the budget for the work?
If all of this is in place will the school have to be closed during works? If so where will the school be housed during this time?
There are a hundred other questions that have to be answered and hundreds of schools in this situation. Therefore it is a complex problem.
Things have a habit of loosing momentum as they travel down the line from government minister and through a department. This is not just a problem in education (or Ireland). Reforming the civil service is a bigger task than any minister or government to date had been able to manage. The state of our school buildings, and out police stations, are symptoms of this complex problem.
Duplex said:
I appreciate that its serves some peoples interests to make the process seem like the trials of Hercules but of course it isn't.
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Who's interests are served?
It’s easy for people like us who are not in possession of all the facts to say that there is no reason why things don’t happen. Reality is bedevilled by those pesky details.
 
I have to emphasise this point I'm afraid. The task of building a school is simple. The Victorians were quite capable of providing schools in remote areas across Ireland. Incompetence and indolence in our public sector coupled with spineless government may make the task next to impossible granted.
 
Did anyone hear the Minister on the RTE News at One yesterday blaming the parents for blocking planning permission for the construction of classroom space as being the main reason why there was no room in the particular school in Laytown?

An interesting way to deflect the blame I thought.
 
Objections to ABP definitely happen with schools. That throws off a building project by 6 months (or more).
Schools do bring significant traffic to particular areas. If a school is going to be built next to you then you might consider trying to get the entrance put further up the road etc.

I've no idea if it happened in this particular case though.

Also one should ask whether the timescale of an appeal to ABP should be factored in. "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best" etc.
 

Why is that deflecting the blame?
 
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