No PP on garage extension

Hello all aamers'

We have recently been very lucky, dp and I, to buy the house of our dreams. But as things have progressed with the sale a few things have "popped up".

Firstly the garage at the side of our house we want to buy has NO PLANNING PERMISSION. It is needed as it is joined at the front/side of the house. We were wiling to wait until the vendors applied for retention and then the appeal period,a total of fourteen weeks, but thats too long. And also we are selling a house so I dont want to put the purchasers of our house by saying it will be probably nearer Christmas when we can close.

So what we propose to do is buy the house without the PP and apply for retention as soon as we move in.

Has anyone ever done this, bought a property with no PP for an extension/modification? And was there any other problems you encountered???


Secondly the house is subject to a Consent to Sale with the Local Authority because the house is ex-council. This may slow the process down even further!!!!!!!

It is true what they say, moving home is the most stressful thing you can do!!!!!!!

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

Hi there

I am also having a problem like this at the moment - it turns out that the entire back half of our potential house was built on in the late 60's i.e after 1964 and there is no planning permission - we cannot knock down this extension as it is literally half the house. I have been told that we can take the house and apply for retention which will be granted, however in order to get retention apparently you have to pay three times the normal planning permission fees - apparently this can run to a couple of thousand?? (does anybody know if this is true). I am waiting on my solicitor to come back to me as we are also dealing with other issues on the house but I have been told that I should ask the vendors for a reduction in price - (the vendor has already approached me and asked me to pay for new plans he had drawn up for an entirely new extension 2 years ago - apparently planning permission was granted for this extension) so I have no qualms about asking him for a reduction in price!



I also would appreciate any advice available regarding retention.

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

Hi Moesha,
I have just been through the housebuying pain and our solicitor was a stickler, looking for Certificates of Planning compliance for the garage at the back, the garden shed, etc.We thought he was being over fussy but the Building Society we where getting our mortgage from insisted on it.I can see their logic.If the garage ,roughly, speaking adds 30,000 Euros to the value of the house and the Planning Authorities insist it is demolished then the overall value of your house , which the BS has an interest in is reduced.
In our case the vendors signed a declaration saying the garage was pre-63 therefore exempt from Planning permission.This kept everyone happy.
Check the age of the garage.If your lucky it might be pre-63.Otherwise I can't see your Bank or Solicitor letting you take the chance of buying and hoping you get an exemption.
Good Luck!

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

Ney001,
Domestic Extension Application Planning Levies are €34.
For Retention that imakes €102 (34x3)

It can run into the thousands if you have an illegally built commercial unit or office though.

You shouldn't have paid for the drawings of the extension that the vendor was proposing. There was a thread on that very thing earlier.

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

Thanks for that - can't beat this site for clarifying matters.

I guess the other issue I have to deal with is whether the building society will have a problem with it?

Regarding the other plans, I did start a thread on this before and from advice received I certainly won't be paying for them especially as we went over the asking price because the house came with full planning permission!. I was curious however as to how they got recent planning permission but there is no planning permission for old extension - does nobody check this?.

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

If there is no Planning for the original house as it was pre '63, it would be very difficult for the Planning Dept. to know that the as built house was partially built after '64, and would require Planning.

Only way they'd know is if a neighbour had complained at the time and they checked it out.

Even today one comes across cases where there is an extension onto an old house (let's say 100 years old), the extension might be old but it is impossible to give an exact date - it could be built anytime between let's say 1960 and 1965. There may be noone around to confirm either way - so it's simply easier to say "yerra, it looks like it was built in '62 to me"

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

Basically once the unauthorised development of whatever size is over 5 ( or 7 ) years old the council CANNOT make you knock it down. They will not even try.

In my personal estimation even a full house with no PP at ALL not even outline PP on the site is still worth about 70-80% of what it would be worth with full PP once its 5 (or 7) years old. The council cannot enforce any more and thats that.

I know of properties where extensions of 5 (or 7) years age were refused retention after that period and thats all that happened. The building stays. The council can still do nothing except refuse retentions.

Use it to get a reduction of 10% or so . Its the best you can do. If the extension is less than 5 (or 7) years get a full refund from the vendor for it. The council could tell you to knock it.

It has nothing to do with pre or post 1963

HTH

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

Ok

So if its pre 63 it doesnt need permission. Its not pre 63, the house wasnt even built then.

So if its over 5 or 7 years old the council cant touch it but they can refuse retention. Do you still have to apply for it though? Am i right???

Also if we ask a reduction in price our mortgage will be over the 60% loan to value ratio and we will not get our cheaper interst rate. NOw we could change our loan amount to put it under the 60% of house value but will this process take longer or what?

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

ney001 said:

I guess the other issue I have to deal with is whether the building society will have a problem with it?

Click to expand...

On this question i do know that our bank doesnt have a problem with our purchase as our loan to value ratio is pretty low as we have alot of equity from our current house sale. So it depends on where your getting your money from. If its a 92% mortage they might have a problem. Not sure about this, but i hope it make it a bit clearer.........

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

Purchasing a House involves a Contract no?.
You buy a dwelling that does not have full PP and afaik the Contract cannot be valid - you cannot contract for something illegal. You should have your solicitor bring this to the attention of the vendor's representative, may be a way of exerting leverage on the vendor to sort this out prior to contracts being signed.

Alternatively just apply for retention yourself once you have signed. The chances of a side garage being refused permisson retention and condemned if it has been insiut for some time is remote.

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

Zack,

The vendors Solicitors actually brought it to our attention. They sent our Solrs the contract with a letter stating that the garage had no PP and what were our views on it......

Afaik its in situ since 2001. I realy dont see a problem with us getting the Retention as its not affeecting anybody. Its not facing or backing onto anybody or even siding with any property. What we could do , i think, is ask for a redcution in price but that means changing the mortgage amount and blah blah blah, more ****e for us to do........

I was suggesting was asking them do prepare the application for the retention with our names and then when we bought signd contacts we could apply straight away. I dont know if this is good or bad, what do other people think, or if i could ask them for anything else..... Silly dopes if you ask me, not having PP.

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

Hi,

I am having this problem aswell. The people who are selling the house built a garage that they thought was only 25sqm but its a meter too long so they need PP now! Anyway my solicitor says that if they apply for retention it could take two/three months. We are ready to sign next week as my house has been sold! Cant contact my solicitor at the moment to get latest. He told me yesterday that a bank wont draw down a mortgage cheque with an illegal building on a house site. Would a bank give us the mortgage subject to retention and let us proceed with the sale then make sure the retention is granted?

Thanks

Brian

The 25 sq. m. is measured internally. Can you not stick up a studwork wall 1m in from one side - thus reducing the floor area?

Dont know if this would work. If they knocked it down entirely I'd be happy to be honest as its built badly. Would mean renegotiating the house value as we'd be losing out but that would only delay by maybe a week or two instead of months. Frustrasting stuff. I couldnt stand losing out on a house for 1 sq meter!

Re: No PP on garage extension!!!!

2Pack said:

Basically once the unauthorised development of whatever size is over 5 ( or 7 ) years old the council CANNOT make you knock it down. They will not even try.

Click to expand...

I agree with this and the legalisation is here to prove it.

[broken link removed]

(4) (a) No warning letter or enforcement notice shall issue and no proceedings for an offence under this Part shall commence—
(i) in respect of a development where no permission has been granted, after seven years from the date of the commencement of the development;


It's a good thing that your/a solicitor would be careful enough to ensure for you (and I presume the banks satisfaction) that the property had permission but in cases like this or small rear extensions it can be a bit much looking for certs/retention etc when it’s just a waste of time for everyone to get a piece of paper.

I have looked at new houses, which while having the necessary permission, engineers certs etc were very poor when it comes to sound insulation, thermal insulation, comfort, heating, size, layout etc. But they sold like hot cakes because they had those pieces of paper to say that they were in order.

I would rather buy a good house built properly without permission (over the 7 years of course) than a stamped out timber fabricated production line 1200sq box. Rant over and out.