No measures for self employed startups to claim SW benefit B*2019

Status
Not open for further replies.
I

iTechy

Registered User
Messages
6
Sunday business post stating that the hopes for the self employed to be able to claim social welfare benefit are set to be dashed in the event of your business failing, apparently it will be a few years before it's looked at again.

Really angers me as I was hoping this would be introduced so I could start a business but now i'm reconsidering taking the plunge...
 
I'd really like if they brought in illness benefit for self employed, I need an op on my foot that would have me off work for up to 12 weeks minimum, can't afford that!
 
Just remind me what rate of prsi self employed people pay?

And remind me who much PRSI is paid on behalf of employees?

Brendan
 
Self employed workers can apply for JSA "dole" the exact same as any employed worker.
 
That just doesn't help me Brendan, I know the rate is lower but it's not me refusing to pay proper rate for proper benefits, it wouldn't affect me that much anyway if they upped it as I don't earn enough for it to matter partly why I can't take 3 months off work without pay.

An employed worker newly out of work doesn't have to apply for 'dole', they get jsb for 9 months. As we all know jsa or dole is means tested and yes indeed that's great that if there is not another bob coming and you have accumulated nothing in the line of savings or property then it is the safety net against total destitution.
 
Hi Monbretia

It doesn't help you and it should not help you.

Someone declaring €20,000 a year pays €800 a year in PRSI. That is about two weeks pension. So they get a pension for life for paying in only €800 a year.

And they want Jobseekers and Sickness Benefit as well!

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi Monbretia

It doesn't help you and it should not help you.

Someone declaring €20,000 a year pays €800 a year in PRSI. That is about two weeks pension. So they get a pension for life for paying in only €800 a year.

And they want Jobseekers and Sickness Benefit as well!

Brendan
Click to expand...

An employee on €50,000 a year still isn't coming anywhere near funding their own State pension, even if you include their employers contribution, so the funding argument doesn't stack up.
Why shouldn't self employed people have the option of paying higher taxes in order be covered by the same welfare rates as employees?
On a side note I think PRSI should be renamed as it is not insurance and it certainly isn't pay related from a recipients perspective.
 
Well maybe I'm a special case Brendan :) I have paid normal employee contributions for 31 yrs and in later years on a pretty good salary so I have contributed a fair old bit, I am only self employed 5 yrs. I love your someone 'declaring' 20k a year, is that an implication that what self employed people declare and earn are different :) I'm very honest as it happens especially when it comes to Revenue! I saw enough people trying to trick the system and end up in trouble in my previous employment and as Judge Judy says 'you don't need a good memory if you tell the truth'.

But it's neither here nor there what I paid previously once you are out of that system. I'm afraid I did a lot of voluntary work when first unemployed, a few genuine cases like myself being given a few weeks/months of illness benefit is not what is wrong with the system. I actually had to give up the voluntary work as it was not good for me seeing the 'working' of the system that goes on.
 
Monbretia said:
I'd really like if they brought in illness benefit for self employed, I need an op on my foot that would have me off work for up to 12 weeks minimum, can't afford that!
Click to expand...
Self employed are entitled to sick pay in the event of Illness or Injury from the 1 st of December 2017,
Monbretia./purple
I know someone who was self employer who now is on Invalidity pension the are around 50 years old,
Have you checked it out,
 
Last edited:
RETIRED2017 said:
Self employed are entitled to sick pay in the event of Illness or Injury from the 1 st of December 2017
Click to expand...


They are entitled to Invalidity pension but not Illness Benefit to the best of my knowledge.

I actually had a minor op on the foot prior to that budget putting off the major one as it was indicated there would be benefits for self employed but it turned out to be only Invalidity that was brought in. Very different application processes for both benefits and Invalidity is only for long term unfixable illnesses and won't cover something short term like a broken leg!
 
Monbretia said:
They are entitled to Invalidity pension but not Illness Benefit to the best of my knowledge.

I actually had a minor op on the foot prior to that budget putting off the major one as it was indicated there would be benefits for self employed but it turned out to be only Invalidity that was brought in. Very different application processes for both benefits and Invalidity is only for long term unfixable illnesses and won't cover something short term like a broken leg!
Click to expand...

I don't like the Idea of you having to put a major operation off brings back bad memories of my late father trying to continue working up until pension age,

I still remember the day he got the old age pension it was like winning the lotto,

I am just passing on the information on post no 10 above ,He was not expecting to qualify in fact it was by accident he found out foot problem also,

nurse got him to see hospital Social worker about another Issue ,

Social worker pointed out because he was in hospital it is easier to pass self employment requirements for benefit she helped him fill up the forms and the rest is history,

I thought he went from illness benefit to Invalidity maybe he applied first for illness benefit and it got changed to invalidity pension ,if I find out anymore i will post back

Best of luck,
 
Last edited:
Unless he had managed to get a means tested allowance initially then you won't get invalidity for anything other than something that will prohibit you from working again for a very long time if ever.

The foot op isn't that major, not life threatening stuff, more quality of life stuff and is a long standing issue but totally exacerbated by my now self employment. There is also talks of my old employer allowing early retirements from our pension plan and I am hoping that might happen next year, can't wait for that pension!

Illness benefit is easily got from a medical point of view, doctors cert and that's it as it's short term, for employees obviously.

Invalidity Pension is a whole different ball game, you'll need doctors/consultants letters confirming the illness/injury will prohibit work at your previous employment and probably any other one, SW will be quick to suggest retraining if possible. I have been through an oral hearing appeal for invalidity pension, they go into serious detail and rightly so and while it's great that least that has been brought in as an option for self employed it only kicks in a serious level of illness.
 
I always found public servants to be very fair in my dealings with them ,I suspect they would treat everyone the same when deciding invalidity pension,
 
Monbretia said:
Well maybe I'm a special case Brendan :) I have paid normal employee contributions for 31 yrs and in later years on a pretty good salary so I have contributed a fair old bit, I am only self employed 5 yrs.
Click to expand...

Hi Monbretia


Agree with you fully. The pension and dole should be limited to what has been paid in by you or on your behalf. And not on what your employment status was in the 12 months before the current year.

Brendan
 
RETIRED2017 said:
I always found public servants to be very fair in my dealings with them ,I suspect they would treat everyone the same when deciding invalidity pension
Click to expand...

I agree, I was only accompanying someone after having helped them with paperwork and the appeals officer was very fair but by the very nature of their job they have to be a bit on the suspicious side as not every claim is valid!
 
Mr Meathman who is self employed applied for illness benefit in May as he was unable to work due to the physical nature of his work and problems with his knees. I encouraged him to apply as thought this had been introduced for self employed. He has been self employed since before 1988, is now almost 62 and pays considerable PRSI as has rental property along with his daily work. Letter came back saying he did not qualify and would only qualify if he was out of work for a year or more. When I asked how would he know now how long he would expect to be out of work they replied well you will only qualify if for example you have a brain injury.
I too feel aggrieved at this as he is paying into the system ( albeit maybe not as much as employee/ employer contribution but is contributing considerable tax and prsi).
He did not want to go down the invalidity route as really hopes to get back working although I doubt this will happen.
 
iTechy said:
Really angers me as I was hoping this would be introduced so I could start a business but now i'm reconsidering taking the plunge...
Click to expand...
Starting a business was the best decision I ever made, I really would not let this stop you. If you're particularly concerned about it, you could look to take out some form of income protection.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top