Nissan Leaf when to buy

I am considering buying a 2017 Leaf. Just wondering would I be better off to wait until January 2022 when presumably more people trade in buy new cars. Looking at 2 Leafs at the moment both are the same price one with 45000 km the other 25 000 km..Unfortunately or fortunately I know the guy with the Leaf with higher mileage. I was hoping he might drop his price. What service record would either of these cars have? They are both looking for 15000.euros Any advice?

2nd hand Electric cars might go down in price, but not other cars. Batteries supposed to last 8/10 years might mean more than half of those cars batteries might be gone. Do you know the price to replace one? Would I buy one? Not in a million years.

There’s huge demand in the secondhand market generally at the moment, but especially for electric vehicles as they become more mainstream (20% of car sales in October were fully electric). I’ve had an autotrader.co.uk alert setup for 2018 Leafs since before Brexit, they have been stuck at £20k since then. So no I don’t think waiting until the New Year will make much difference to be honest.

Is there any chance you could stretch to a 2018? The 2017 will be the older style and have a 30kWh battery compared to the 2018, which is a much better quality 40kWh.

Also watch out for the trim level. The base spec (XE?) has quite an economy feel inside, while the top spec (SVE) is very comfortable with leather all through, heated seats front and back, heated steering wheel, auto lights and wipers, GPS, cruise control, 360 degree cameras etc. I think it’s well worth the money for the top spec if you can stretch to it. What is the trim on the two you’re looking at?

In-terms of checking out the cars there are a few things to look for. The first is battery state of health (SOH), which you can see on the right side of the instrument panel. There are 12 indicator lights, if all 12 are on then the battery SOH is over 85%. If you want more detail you can pick up a dongle which will plug into the OBD port and give the exact figure, they’re €20 on Amazon. Ireland has the perfect climate for EVs, and while the battery chemistry in the Leafs is the worst out there, a 2017 should still have 90% SOH or so.

If you want a sense of where the battery life of your Leaf is likely to go, this ([broken link removed]) 10 year old Leaf has 9 of 12 SOH lights on the dash, so it is over 70%. This was one of the first ever EVs on the market, so bleeding edge battery chemistry that has improved significantly since. The price has come down to reflect the slowly reducing range.

Other than that it’s very like any other car so check brake pads, steering, suspension, any rust etc. In-terms of servicing they need virtually none in the first few years, even at that age it will just be brake pads and fluid that tend to come up. There have been some firmware updates and recalls though, so ideally you’d want to see some Nissan services.

With these older generation EVs you do need to be sure you have somewhere to charge it (home or work) and that the real world range is sufficient for your needs. On the motorway in the depths of winter you’ll want to stop every 100km in a 30kWh Leaf. At city speeds it will do maybe twice that. Perfect if you have a second car or only do long range trips rarely, not a runner if your commute is 100km.

I bought a 3-4 year old Leaf a few years ago, just to see what EV driving was like compared to my BMW 335, within two weeks I knew I’d never go back to a petrol station. We got another one for my wife a few weeks later she was so impressed. I’m now in one of the newer 62kWh Leafs which is a fantastic car that will get me anywhere in Ireland I want to go without stopping. They’re also wickedly reliable and at the price point you’re considering there is very little depreciation at the moment. Suffice to say I think you won’t regret it, nobody goes back and there’s a good reason for that!

There have been multiple reports over the last few months about second hand cars increasing in value given all the different factors playing in the market.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/20...-and-brexit-cause-used-car-prices-to-surge-50 and https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...h-more-due-to-shortage-ofsupply-40713255.html as some examples.

A lot of new cars also have pretty long lead times, especially on the higher trims, which seems to be forcing more people into the second hand market.

As @Zenith63 mentions above, checking the battery life is really important. There have been a number of horror like stories over the year with Nissan wanting more than the value of the car to repair/replace the battery. Luckily some aftermarket options have started showing up which are making replacements and even range increases pretty affordable.

noproblem said:

2nd hand Electric cars might go down in price, but not other cars. Batteries supposed to last 8/10 years might mean more than half of those cars batteries might be gone. Do you know the price to replace one? Would I buy one?

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This nonsense is not evident in the real world. EV's hold their value and batteries last longer than the cars they are in. Half of the batteries gone in 10 years? Please provide evidence of this.

PGF2016 said:

This nonsense is not evident in the real world. EV's hold their value and batteries last longer than the cars they are in. Half of the batteries gone in 10 years? Please provide evidence of this.

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Electric cars in a few years will be a fraction of what they cost today, The battery span will expand, a better guarantee on them and new developments will vastly improve what's out there today. People who might have to go to Dublin, Cork, long distance, for appointments, meetings, work, ,aybe on a quick turnaround and will find themselves filling up for a "long time", if they can find a suitable place to do so. I've been told by many garage owners that the battery life is aprox 8/10 years, I believe those people, so a 5 year old car would have half , plus, of that used by my logic. No, in my opinion we're not geared up at all for electric cars yet. They're far too expensive, and people buying them are being used as guinea pigs. Then again, that's only my opinion. You have yours and that's fine too.

noproblem said:

I've been told by many garage owners that the battery life is aprox 8/10 years, I believe those people, so a 5 year old car would have half , plus, of that used by my logic.

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The motor industry are almost universally opposed to electric vehicles. There was a report (link to the story) this week which came to the conclusion that Toyota are the third most obstructive company to climate change mitigation behind Chevron and ExxonMobil. This extends right through to repair shops who are facing an existential crisis due to the decline in business as there are so fewer moving parts in EVs that need maintenance. A service on a Nissan Leaf is €120 per annum and you’re unlikely to spend more than that in the first 5-6 years, thereafter maybe some pads and disks. Their opposition is entirely understandable, but they’re hardly an objective source of truth. It would be better to speak to some owners of older EVs.

noproblem said:

Electric cars in a few years will be a fraction of what they cost today, The battery span will expand, a better guarantee on them and new developments will vastly improve what's out there today. People who might have to go to Dublin, Cork, long distance, for appointments, meetings, work, ,aybe on a quick turnaround and will find themselves filling up for a "long time", if they can find a suitable place to do so. I've been told by many garage owners that the battery life is aprox 8/10 years, I believe those people, so a 5 year old car would have half , plus, of that used by my logic. No, in my opinion we're not geared up at all for electric cars yet. They're far too expensive, and people buying them are being used as guinea pigs. Then again, that's only my opinion. You have yours and that's fine too.

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Fair enough if it's your opinion but if you're offering advice how about sticking to facts as opposed to propaganda from vested interests.

Hello,
I'm not sure of the full details, but I know that Nissan offered people who bought a Nissan Leaf a few years ago, the opportunity to swap into a new one, at a later date - I think it was a year later.
It might be worth checking what the motivation was for this offer - was it to help sell the model, or was there an issue with the older one?

I think that I'd be slow to buy a second hand EV at this time, without factoring in the cost of having to replace the battery, if I'm being honest.

I'm also hoping that a Chinese company called NIO will start selling into Ireland, in the next few years - they sell their cars with the battery excl, then you rent the battery -
* which makes the initial acquisition cost a lot cheaper,
* means you aren't committed to an individual battery,
* and perhaps most importantly, offers the ability to swap your exhausted battery for a fully charged one, in under 3 mins (so no more lengthy waits, while recharging). Granted, that requires recharge centres, but it's already up and running in China, has just launched in Norway etc.

In conclusion, I see NIO's concept as a potential game changer.

PGF2016 said:

Fair enough if it's your opinion but if you're offering advice how about sticking to facts as opposed to propaganda from vested interests.

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Sorry for having an opinion and not offering advice as such.
The future of electric cars will be decided by the consumer at the end of the day, not by goverments, not by save the earth, not by blah blah blah. Wonderful indeed if everything comes to fruition, but the diesel car/jeep, etc, isn't going anywhere near obsolete in the near future. It might be no harm though if you yourself would get off your high horse and have some respect for other people's opinions, even though you think otherwise. I accept and, also acknowledge, you're a unique individual. Just like everyone else.

When Apple launched the iPhone it cost many times the price of a Nokia 3310. You could make a call or text from either but the iPhone had a lot of benefits that the 3310 couldn't offer. EVs are similar, except the price differential is much smaller than between Nokia and Apple, and EVs are likely to achieve parity in the near future. Consumers are not driven purely by price.

noproblem said:

The future of electric cars will be decided by the consumer at the end of the day, not by goverments, not by save the earth, not by blah blah blah. Wonderful indeed if everything comes to fruition, but the diesel car/jeep, etc, isn't going anywhere near obsolete in the near future.

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Dozens of countries across the world are phasing out new ICE vehicle sales over the next 10-15 years. If people can't buy new ICE vehicles then government is very clearly deciding the future of EVs. In Dublin I see multiple 2021 reg EV taxis every day, again because of government subsidies.

The battery degradation claims border on hysteria. I know 20+ people who have EVs, some since 2011, and none of them have had battery issues. If the issue is real I would have expected Joe Duffy and Prime Time to be inundated. The biggest complaints I hear about EVs at the moment is that the waiting times for buyers are through the roof.

noproblem said:

It might be no harm though if you yourself would get off your high horse and have some respect for other people's opinions

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In my opinion the earth is flat. Do you have respect for that opinion?

The OP asked for help. Your comment was not helpful as it was incorrect. Sorry but for the forum to be useful that needs to be called out.

arbitron said:

he battery degradation claims border on hysteria. I know 20+ people who have EVs, some since 2011, and none of them have had battery issues. If the issue is real I would have expected Joe Duffy and Prime Time to be inundated. The biggest complaints I hear about EVs at the moment is that the waiting times for buyers are through the roof.

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Thank you for this.

PGF2016 said:

In my opinion the earth is flat. Do you have respect for that opinion?

The OP asked for help. Your comment was not helpful as it was incorrect. Sorry but for the forum to be useful that needs to be called out.

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Maybe the OP can be allowed to confirm what you've said. I'm only pointing out my opinion, and you're coming up with all kinds of theories of me giving flawed opinions of people I have actually met, and spoken to. Some people also told me that their batteries exploded and set fire to the car after being involved in a crash. Also, what happens the batteries when their time is up? Those people have no reason whatsoever to tell me lies.

noproblem said:

Some people also told me that their batteries exploded and set fire to the car after being involved in a crash.

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More disinformation!
Electric cars are 61 times less likely to catch on fire (crash or otherwise) than Petrol cars

And that's from an insurance company.
"Hybrid vehicles actually come in number one with the most fires per 100K sales (3474.5). Gas vehicles are second (1529.9), and electric vehicles place third, with only 25 fires per 100K electric vehicle sales."

I don't think that EVs have been around long enough, and in sufficient numbers, to rely on stats like that - be they good or bad.

Zenith63 said:

There’s huge demand in the secondhand market generally at the moment, but especially for electric vehicles as they become more mainstream (20% of car sales in October were fully electric). I’ve had an autotrader.co.uk alert setup for 2018 Leafs since before Brexit, they have been stuck at £20k since then. So no I don’t think waiting until the New Year will make much difference to be honest.

Is there any chance you could stretch to a 2018? The 2017 will be the older style and have a 30kWh battery compared to the 2018, which is a much better quality 40kWh.

Also watch out for the trim level. The base spec (XE?) has quite an economy feel inside, while the top spec (SVE) is very comfortable with leather all through, heated seats front and back, heated steering wheel, auto lights and wipers, GPS, cruise control, 360 degree cameras etc. I think it’s well worth the money for the top spec if you can stretch to it. What is the trim on the two you’re looking at?

In-terms of checking out the cars there are a few things to look for. The first is battery state of health (SOH), which you can see on the right side of the instrument panel. There are 12 indicator lights, if all 12 are on then the battery SOH is over 85%. If you want more detail you can pick up a dongle which will plug into the OBD port and give the exact figure, they’re €20 on Amazon. Ireland has the perfect climate for EVs, and while the battery chemistry in the Leafs is the worst out there, a 2017 should still have 90% SOH or so.

If you want a sense of where the battery life of your Leaf is likely to go, this ([broken link removed]) 10 year old Leaf has 9 of 12 SOH lights on the dash, so it is over 70%. This was one of the first ever EVs on the market, so bleeding edge battery chemistry that has improved significantly since. The price has come down to reflect the slowly reducing range.

Other than that it’s very like any other car so check brake pads, steering, suspension, any rust etc. In-terms of servicing they need virtually none in the first few years, even at that age it will just be brake pads and fluid that tend to come up. There have been some firmware updates and recalls though, so ideally you’d want to see some Nissan services.

With these older generation EVs you do need to be sure you have somewhere to charge it (home or work) and that the real world range is sufficient for your needs. On the motorway in the depths of winter you’ll want to stop every 100km in a 30kWh Leaf. At city speeds it will do maybe twice that. Perfect if you have a second car or only do long range trips rarely, not a runner if your commute is 100km.

I bought a 3-4 year old Leaf a few years ago, just to see what EV driving was like compared to my BMW 335, within two weeks I knew I’d never go back to a petrol station. We got another one for my wife a few weeks later she was so impressed. I’m now in one of the newer 62kWh Leafs which is a fantastic car that will get me anywhere in Ireland I want to go without stopping. They’re also wickedly reliable and at the price point you’re considering there is very little depreciation at the moment. Suffice to say I think you won’t regret it, nobody goes back and there’s a good reason for that!

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Many thanks Mr Earl for all the above advice. I am still a bit reticent as I had a 2017 Leaf picked out . When I rang the owner it was his wife’s car.He had a diesel himself and was not a fan of electric cars citing the range as the biggest obstacle.He said fine if I was driving short distances.I had it narrowed down to 2 Leafs both 2017 both 30 kw.One is 170 km from my home it has very low mileage 25000 km.The other which is also 2017 has 45000 km.This one is only 16km from my home. While my wife and I are both retired.Most of our travel is local.My wife has just bought a 2018 Ford Fiesta.Our main concern is that we have an investment property 80 km from home in rural area.If I thought I could easily reach that property on a charge. I could use granny charger day though it is in the centre of a small village, not sure is it feasible having a lead crossing part of a footpath. I am now totally confused should I forget about a 30 KW battery and just go back to a petrol car until such time as when I can afford a bigger capacity battery.

does the concept of getting a 2 year old car rather than still apply with EV's ?

I started reading up on articles on Electric Cars several years ago. There is a lot of knowledge on the new tech thats not always obvious, so step 1 is - read up as much as you can on the various choices, how the vehicles work, how the vehicles compare.

Initially, i was also very skeptical of range being, a major issue, but then overtime, i began reading a lot about statistics on what most people drive on average per day, and it was a lot lower than i thought, then i looked at our own driving habits, and i conceeded, this information was actually quite accurate. The reality is that while most people think about range as a “major” issue, in reality, for the average user, its only a minor issue in a small minority of situations. I am excluding people who have 300km daily commutes, again, this is a minority of the general population.

The next issue i was skeptical about was public charging. Is the public charging network adequate ? just like on the range issue, i thought about the journeys i do on an annual basis. I usually go on a 1 week holidays a few hours drive away- but within 300kms away, once a year, plus maybe 3 to 4 weekends away. So when i broke it down, there would only be 4 to 5 occasions per year, where i would have to even think about public charging. The rest of the time, my charging, would be covered by a home charger. So, a non issue.

Next issue i looked into, was battery degredation. Did a good bit of research on this, across several models. In summary, there is a reduction in battery capacity over time, but it has been less than predicted in most cases. Vehicles have battery guarantees typically 7 to 10 years, and the warranty usually covers, up to around 100,000 kms. I even came across details of BMW who - after it became apparent their i3 model degraded much less than anticipated, actually increased the battery warranty to 150,000 kms. If you look up boards .ie there are great threads on all EV models, and one user had 130,000 kms on an i3 model about 7years old, with nearly negligible degredation.

So, the above 3 main issues i determined to be non issues for most EV models.

So last July i purchased a 1 year old EV, it has a WLTP (ideal conditions) of about 300kms, i have used public charging only 5 times, 3 of those was while on a weeks holidays, there was a public charger near where we were staying. The 4/5th time was when we had to drive 3 hours to Dublin Airport, enroute up, i charged to 80 % when almost at the airport, so when we returned, we had enough to get us more than half way home.

None of the public charging was an issue, and now that i have an EV, i am much more aware of where they are, and the best apps to find them, in the event i need one, which is almost never.

On a normal week, i charge once every 6 to 9 days days at home, depending on what trips we go on on weekends or evenings. My weekly work commute is low at about 20 kms round trip - 5days a week.

I would certainly agree with previous posters who advised considering going for the newer Leaf, having said that, even the older 30kw battery model maybe suitable depending on your own driving habits, do you go on very long drives each week ? , or only a few times per year ?

The other item to mention is, when doing motorway driving at 120kms, this does drain the battery a lot faster, but if you are stopping for a break, you can charge up then, then its a non issue. For me, as i am hardly ever doing motorway drives, its a non issue, but appreciate, thats just me.

It all depends in your lifestyle and driving habits/commute, and i did decide early on to get a minimum 40kw battery model, but thats just something i wanted.

On savings, i have seen fuel costs drop by nearly 80 %, annual road tax is down to €120, so i have definitely seen big and noticeable savings, and there are further savings possible by using smart meter night rates, which i am looking into at the moment.

Finally, after more than 10 years with my old diesel car, and now 5 months driving an EV, i can honestly say i’d never go back. Its so easy to drive, quicker, smoother, the drive is more relaxing, less stressful, and so quiet, its really been breath of fresh air.

Going Electric, is a big change, and change can be tricky and initially daunting, but i suggest - read up on the models, take a few test drives of different vehicles (i test drove 8 different EV’s before buying)that are within budget, and then, make your own - well informed decision.