New political party anyone?

DublinTexas said:
Where in the world did you see a withdraw of all social support in there?
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"We need to get away from the current tax/sw system whereby hard work is penalised and doing nothing is rewarded." [Emphasis added]. I simply extrapolated from that.

Lower taxes don't mean less social support, if you make a fairer tax burden and streamline the support than you actualy are able to deliver better services.
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You are conflating the ideas of lower taxes and fairer taxes. I don't accept that they are the same thing.

I also think the scope for efficiency savings on delivery of social support is relatively small. I'm not suggesting that we should not seek more efficiency. I simply mean that we won't save a great deal, especially in relation to the size of our exchequer problems.

Again, maybe you could share you alternative proposal for what we should do, because I'm very interested in hearing that one.
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I'm not the one attempting to draw up a manifesto for a new political party. I'm simply telling you why I think the current set of proposals is daft.
 
Padraigb said:
I'm not the one attempting to draw up a manifesto for a new political party. I'm simply telling you why I think the current set of proposals is daft.
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And you don't think that this is the attitude that contributes to the current problems?

If you have an opinon why suggestions that break with the current regime are daft than you also must have an idea yourself what a new party could offer that is not daft.

It's funny that you are willing to call other peoples opinions daft but don't allow them to judge your own opinions which might be not daft and hence could contribute to the overall sucess of a plan.

But if you rather play opposition than that is something I accept.
 
csirl said:
Based on the figures required to run the country in the 2009 Book of Estimates, a flat rate tax of 14% would raise the same amount of tax as under the current tax regime.
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So you would take €28 from somebody trying to get by on €200 pw in order to avoid taking more than €280 from somebody on €2000 pw?

I would contend that this is a much lower rate of income tax than the typical PAYE working family is paying. These people would have more money to spend.
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And other would have less. No net effect on the economy.


Most people are tax-compliant at existing rates. Better enforcement (aided by some shift in popular attitudes to tax avoidance/evasion) has much to do with it, probably far more than reductions in rates. There are limits to how much reductions in rates can bring out increases in revenue.
 
So you would take €28 from somebody trying to get by on €200 pw in order to avoid taking more than €280 from somebody on €2000 pw?
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Yes, everyone should pay their fair share and success should not be punatively punished.

P.S. €200 per week is a way below the min. wage for full time employment.
 
csirl said:
Yes, everyone should pay their fair share and success should not be punatively punished.
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I live in a household where the income is closer to €2000 pw than to €200 pw, and the effective tax rate is well above 14%. No way would I support a party that takes a view such as yours. We don't feel punished.

P.S. €200 per week is a way below the min. wage for full time employment.
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Not that far, and there are plenty of people trying to get by on such an income.
 
Padraigb said:
I live in a household where the income is closer to €2000 pw than to €200 pw, and the effective tax rate is well above 14%. No way would I support a party that takes a view such as yours. We don't feel punished.
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If you feel that you don't pay enough taxes and you won't support a tax cut than that is great, I'm not sure if there more people like you out there.

I was that way, I had no problems paying taxes (and I lived in countries where I paid nearly 70% taxes) as I'm happy to do my part, but in recent month I started to develop a different view. Now I am hiring an account to ensure that I can take every tax break I can because I don't feel that I should pay more taxes so that the goverment can misspend it.

There are things I never will strop doing like paying taxes and contributing to charity, I just will get my tax burden down and than give it to charity which is doing a better job than the goverment.
 
You have two main problems here.

1) Fine Gael already occupy that space, and won't give it up easily
2) The PDs already tried this 'new party' approach, with heavyweights like O'Malley, Molloy, Harney and McDowell, before crashing out.

So it's not going to work. If you really, really do want to proceed, be prepared to give up every waking hour for a couple of years to get this off the ground. You're going to spend every evening on the rubber chicken circuit, and every weekend chasing down the byroads of the country to meetings. Be prepared not to see your family and (yipee) not to post on AAM for a couple of years. Be prepared to spend huge financial resources to get it off the ground.

The best think that you could practically do would be to join FG and get involved in the local elections campaign. Get some experience of what is actually involved in knocking on doors, putting up posters and running fundraisers. To achieve your political goals as outlined above, your best bet is to try to drag FG to the right (along with Verodakar, Coveney and others). If you are really fixated on the new party, you can leave FG after the election to do your own thing, but it aint gonna work.
 
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