New-build snagging disaster

We are in the same boat here, the exact same issue with triple glazing being replaced by double glazing. The brochure /advertising (which was the official webside of the development) advertised triple glazed windows, specifications said either double or triple of specific u-value, however double glazing was fitted and air tightness /BER report shows they less then what they should be regardless.... Another thing that really got me down to my knees was no soundproofing!! Bare concrete exposed behind the heating system (stud, insulation and plaster board is simply not there), while snagging we could hear everything next door, footsteps on stairs, radio etc. I don't even know where to start, proper report would probably cost me thousands?! Where is your development, mine is in Co Kildare?
 
Before making any decision whether to withdraw or stay with it, I would definitely make it my business to speak with neighbours who have already moved in. Im sure they would gladly share their experiences with you. especially as it seems some buyers have already pulled out. My son bought a house last year and the new buyers formed a facebook page , which was great for sharing any difficulties or issues any of them had. There is a lot at stake here for you, and I would be very pro-active in getting as much info as possible. Best of luck with it. I hope it ends well.
 
Ol so you've decided you want to walk away. You need to put your lawyer to work on this precedent question.its what he's being paid for and presumably know the answer.
 
No, ours is in Dublin. Sympathies, it's a bitter pill to swallow I know, especially because you are caught between a rock and a hard place. I want to walk away from this and am caught paying a fortune in rent yet am forced to buy a substandard product. New build housebuyers seem to have little or no rights and are at the mercy of developers.
 
Horatio said:
Ol so you've decided you want to walk away. You need to put your lawyer to work on this precedent question.its what he's being paid for and presumably know the answer.
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He says it could take years to resolve and advised me to go ahead and purchase it and then just sell on if I'm not happy. Wonderful.
 
Gosh that’s a terrible predicament and awful advice. For such a life changing decision I would get another solicitors opinion. Is homebond still around ?
 
It seems there are different levels of issues here:

1) Standard of finish (arguably subjective)
2) As mentioned by another poster, big ticket items not yet controlled/signed off
3) Concern about “hidden defects” (currently you have no proof, but good reason to be concerned)
4) Build not to spec (double v's triple glazing)

Perhaps this triple glazing issue is the easiest topic to focus on contractually. Can you establish if the developer has a legal obligation to provide triple glazing and if so refuse to conclude matters until that issue is rectified. At that point they might agree to cancel the contract.
 
Aladdin said:
He says it could take years to resolve and advised me to go ahead and purchase it and then just sell on if I'm not happy. Wonderful.
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You're solicitor told you that?!! You need a new solicitor then too.

If you are not happy with the condition of the property, do not buy it. Once the builder gets his money, his incentive to fix it is gone. If you own it, you could end up with a dud house that you can't sell. Potential buyers will just walk away from it.

I am not sure on the qualifications of the snagger, but you need a qualified engineer to do it. Present the list to the builder and a time line. If not completed, say you are pulling out of the purchase due to non performance of the contract. If your solicitor won't deal with this issue, sack him.
 
How can they say the house is ready to snag when there's no water connected? You can't check any of the plumbing or heating for leaks or drips.
 
I bought a new built 17 years ago. The finish was bad (really bad) and back and forth in terms of snagging took weeks. We tried to get things sorted that at the end of the day were not sorted or sorted so badly that we had to redo them. Basically I think the builder did more damage than good and we would have been better off just taking the house and dealing with the issues ourselves.

We were the first in the development so we could not ask any of our neighbors. They also had issues that they managed to get sorted or sorted themselves. But most issues were cosmetic or manageable and all still live there.

So once the main issues are fixed, if things work (no leaks, central heating, windows...) I would also ask myself if it's worth fighting for or not. Things are sometimes easier to fix if left untouched. I don't say it is fair but you are also paying rent so each month costs you and if you decide to pull out, it could take a good few months for you to find what you are looking for.

At the end of the day, we could not lose the house at the time. It was at the height of the boom, we had sold our previous house, the market was moving very fast and, as we had delays after delays we were living with family for 4 months. For months/couple of years we wondered if we're going to uncover something, a really bad issue. But we didn't. We are still there, we have zero intention to move.
 
Just to update - still no water connection, still no snagging done and the triple/double glazing thing was explained away as a 'mistake' on the brochure by the estate agent. I've made enquiries with other solicitors who say that I'm better off holding on given the state of the housing market currently and that the builder has no case to answer contractually. Caveat emptor.
 
Sums up all is wrong with Irish building. Great standards on paper, but no inspection to see if build conforms with the law. Seems to be resistance to that idea even on AAM contributors

Interesting, in Finland its the reverse. It's seller beware, buyer has rights post purchase. It's so stacked in buyers favour that no solicitors are involved in the transaction at all.

Process is digitised, sale to purchase can be done in 7 days. Guess they have solved that, as well as being only country to eliminate homelessness in EU.
 
David_Dublin said:
Still, I'd rather live in a home on the island of Ireland than have Russia as my next door neighbour
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Perhaps, but they seemed to have solved that problem last year!.
If your a Dub read up about the Helsinki transport options, you could only dream about.
 
David_Dublin said:
Still, I'd rather live in a home on the island of Ireland than have Russia as my next door neighbour
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That's not really a poor argument against improving Ireland consumer protection for home buyers.

Germany also has some good processes.
 

My experience is there are good and bad builders. I wouldn't be rushed into what is for most people the most expensive thing they'll ever buy and a lifetime financial commitment for most people.

What cost letting it go vs what cost the stress and expenses fixing it all.
 
The cost of letting go is me back at square one with a lot of unprotected cash sitting in the bank (another major concern at this point is the temporary high balance guarantee running out) that's just trickling away on eyewatering rent and storage costs. Honestly at this stage, I can't think straight and wholly regret selling up my previous house too early and basically rendering my family homeless and assetless for pie in the sky with still no endgame in sight. That was my biggest mistake, and one I have to live with now but taking all advice into account at the time believed that selling up and renting in the interim was 'safest' option. Paying for that now.
 
clinteastwood said:
Sums up all is wrong with Irish building. Great standards on paper, but no inspection to see if build conforms with the law. Seems to be resistance to that idea even on AAM contributors
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An engineer is required to sign-off on conformity here, anyone buying needs to verify that and the engineer's insurance.
 
It's difficult not to sympathise with someone in your situation. It's an awful position to be in. In particular, finding your solicitor less than helpful is a major disappointment.

Assuming that you are going to proceed with the purchase, however unhappy you are about it, you need to get the best possible outcome. I would suggest the following at a minimum:

The snag list should be completed by a qualified engineer with adequate professional indemnity insurance. You should review this in situ (bring along a trusted friend or family member or two with relevant experience as a fresh pair of eyes) to ensure it is comprehensive. Your solicitor should send it to the builder's solicitor requesting remediation and a comprehensive response. Anything that hasn't/can't be tested at this point should be noted for follow up.

In addition to the snag list, given the extent of the cosmetic issues, I would get the drains checked and request a full report including cctv inspection. This is an area that would always concern me and I would definitely have checked as remediation at a later date is incredibly expensive. You should also consider getting the electrical, plumbing and heating systems independently checked/certified. There will be bills for this, but it could save you a lot in the longer term.

You should also have a man to man discussion with your solicitor and explain that you aren't happy with his performance. These people aren't cheap, and need to be told when they aren't performing (I've been there). At a minimum he should assist in getting you the best possible outcome starting now. He should also be prepared to pick up on the triple glazing issue for you, it is far too significant and important to be explained away as a misprint.

I have gone through snag lists that were many pages long and were frankly mainly cosmetic issues, put in as padding or CYA by the snagger and I dismissed 90% of the issues on the basis that decoration would eliminate a lot and the rest I could live with or fix. You also need to decide yourself what you can live with and what you can't. And draw a line in the sand or it will drive you mad. You will have to live in the house and you need to be able to get this sorted asap and then put the misery behind you and enjoy your new family home.
 
Leo said:
An engineer is required to sign-off on conformity here, anyone buying needs to verify that and the engineer's insurance.
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Thats part of the problem here. The onus is staked in favour of the seller - rather than the buyer. Here , every potential purchaser has to embark on costly engineering surveys before purchase. IT would be much simpler if the seller had to produce a file for each and every potential buyer documenting all of the signoffs, wiring diagrams, plumbing diagrams and every modification done to a house showing full compliance. Hence this is the Finnish system and as a result housing and office standards are extremely high and from sale to sale completion can be 7 days (I know of someone who did this).

For example, on Christmas day, 3 weeks ago, whilst guest at a 1950's common dormer designed house, (new houses would be much much more expensive) I sat at a dinner table in a shirt, when the temperature outside was below -20C. It reached -38C on one of the nights. Heating was not on in the downstairs , only the upstairs...radiator TRV was set to '3' ie midscale....the house uses a regular old oil burner. Inside the house it was +23C - so there was c.60C delta thermal gradient across the walls, doors and windows. Again , this is a 1950's house, the owners are in their 80s OAPs not able to maintain property much, not one of the new swanky houses that are available now with passive certs and mechanical ventilation systems. .

I didnt once see a jumper, hot water bottles, big duvets, blankets on sofas or dressing gowns with the other guests, even in the upstairs .
So clearly we are doing something wrong with our housing standards , given our much benign weather climate.

On return to Cork, we have the heating on morning and evening , about 6-8 hours every day , when the temp is a mere +5C, and this has been the case in each and every Irish house I have lived in - and this has been quite a few all over the place.

So, for the OP, his stressful experience would not happen there - I mean it is a joke considering the sum of money been paid and he seems to be in a catch 22.
 
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