Neighbour's Proposed Extension

K

kibby

Registered User
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Hi all,

My neighbour came to me recently with sketches of a double extension he wants to build onto the back of his house.
We live in a terrace of four, his is an end house, mine second from the end. His plan is for a two-storey extension the full height and width of the back of his house (his sketch has the outer walls running right up to the boundary - the separation is not specified) and extending 3.3m into his back garden. My rear garden is 4.6m X 11m long. His, due to his side entrance, is about a metre wider.
I've been thinking it over and looking at the plans I'm going to have a very large expanse of flank wall right next to me, and have a significantly darkened kitchen. A couple of years ago my other neighbour extended his kitchen (planning exempt) with a lean-too roof running almost to their toilet window cill. I feel as tho' when this other one is done my back garden will feel more like a handball alley.

My queries are:
1. Is there any kind of minimum separation required between such an extension and the boundary?
2. My house lies south of his: does the 45-degree rule apply here? I read that this rule can be applied to "daylight" as well as "sunlight" (his proposal fails this test both horizontally and vertically).

I feel like a right nuisance but if I don't object I know I'll have a long time to regret it, and I don't know whether he's chancing his arm to see what I'll let him away with.
 
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This sounds like it'll almost certainly need planning permission.

First thing I'd say is that he's done you the courtesy of consulting you before putting in an application, so it'd be as well to keep things as polite as possible. Always keep in mind that you have to live next to this person whatever the outcome of what happens.

If it were me, I'd say to him that although you can understand his need for more space (or whatever), the design he's proposing would block your light and cast a shadow over your garden. If he backs down, well and good. If he makes it clear he's proceeding, then make it clear that you'll be submitting an observation to the planning application and that you think it's best if an independent body (the council) decides.

Blocking light (overshadowing) is a valid objection, so you'd have a strong case.

As for separation there's minimum seperations between structures OK, but not between a structure and a boundary (semi-d's for example). He'll need your permission if he needs access to your property to build the extension, so keep that in mind (though think very carefully before refusing such permission, as that'll guarentee bad feelings between you).

Although people will quote "45-degree" rules in relation to overshadowing, as far as I've been able to find out, there's no such rule as applied to planning applications.
 
He will have to apply for planning permission if the extension is over 40 square metres or if the upper storey is more than 12 square metres.
But I would suggest that you talk to him before and see if he can scale it down.

Alternatively, you could build yourself an extension, sounds like you will have two side walls, just need a back wall and a roof!
 
Am I correct in saying he is not building on the wall dividing your two properties, if he is or intends to he needs your permission. Also, my understanding of the planning laws is that with a 2 storey extension you must leave at least 11 metres between the back wall of the extension and the boundary fence. If his garden is the same length as yours then he will be in breach of this and he may not get planning permission unless he is planning on having no windows upstairs at the back which is unlikely.
Ask him for a more detailed drawing, your entitled to the information as it affects you directly and he will need it anyway for planning
 

1. No. Not if he has planning.

2. Don't think such rules exist, if it has windows overlooking you can get them removed/changed.

3. How much back garden will he have after the extension? I calculated about 45 meters. There is a requirement for 'Private Space', you need to check your area's 'Development Plan'. For example Dublin Corpo require over 60-70 sqm for a 3 bed house.
A neighbor of mine planned an extension much like yours did. It was passed by the local authority after a couple of revisions, due to complaints by other neighbors. It was then appealed to An Bord Pleanala, who sent an inspector out and his report turned down their permission on the 'Private Space' rule. The end result of this are 5 houses not talking to each for the last 4 years, other after been good friends for over 30 years.

Towger
 
The only requirement regarding 'private space' that matters here is the one in the planning regs... you are allowed restrict yourself to a minimum of 25 sq m without planning permission.

by my calculations it seems like he may be trying to extend without planning permission, ie only having 12 sq m of a first floor and ground floor extension... if this is the case and the design conforms to all the requirements to be considered exempt, then i dont see you having much option....

obviously if he is applying for permission then by all means make an 'observation' on the file.... however, youve stated that your house is south of his, therefore any loss of direct sunlight to your dwelling is at a minimum, considering the sun rises in the east and sets in the west... you may not have a strong case on this issue... the daylight factor and 45 degree rule is often quoted by bord pleanala officials when reporting on files so it does carry some weight from a planning point of view.

regarding how youd feel if you made a submission, id explaing to him first of all that you have some issues with the design, and give him a chance to revise it... seeing as he was polite enough to show you first... if you keep everything polite there should be no problem
 
Thanks everyone,

I suppose the prudent thing would be to talk to him before he charges ahead with his planning application. I'll ask him for more detailed drawings.
The unfortunate thing is, while we're good neighbours now, after the dust settles there's going to be lingering tension.

Gonna have to kiss that christmas card goodbye!
 
We objected successfully to a neighbours extension proposal recently. I laboured over it not wanting to create bad relations but we decided eventually that the effect of his extension on our enjoyment of our house was more meaningful than neighbour relations - we get on great with our other neighbours but still only talk to them every few weeks, its not like we're trying to be best friends. Also, I was constantly reminded that this nieghbour could just build extension then sell house and then how silly would I feel for worrying about feelings. Finally, I feel its unfortunately every man for himself in these situations because its your most valuable asset you're talking about, he has decided to risk neighbour relations asking for permission to build an imposing extension, you are doing no worse by saying sorry, I think thats going to have a negative impact on my house.

I always advise people to hire an architect to manage the objection. This does two things - it gets you an expert to look over his detailed drawings (you need these!) and advise you on the implications for your house and what features you can complain about, and also, the architect distances you from the objection. You can apologise to your neighbour for objecting telling him your architect insisted on it because of the huge impact on your property value - might make it less personal.

If you ever plan to build a similar extension maybe you should try and figure that out now and talk to him about you both extending back to the same point so theres no negative effect in the long run.
 
Hmmmm! How did the bad language get through . Anyway, you won't be. You are just defending your own property. He is the one that wants to curtail your enjoyment of same, so if anything, he is the one that is one of those things you said that began with an "f", if he doesn't take you into consideration. And that doesn't involve telling you about it, it means how it will affect your property.

I had a neighbour that came to me once and asked me if he would mind building a shed against the neighbouring partition. I asked how big it would be to be told it would be no bigger than my own barna shed. So I said ok. Yeah right!! It turned out to be huge. The roof was way higher and the length way longer. He then never bothered putting any gutters on it, which means that, that area of my garden was constantly flooded and nothing would survive there. Also he never bothered plastering my side, only his own, so that would look nice on his property. He then turned it into a workplace. He would never speak to me after he had it up and each time I approached him, he'd run for his house with his head down. I got no where. So for me it was a lesson well learnt and a story I hope helps you in your predicament.
 
I agree with TDON, when we did our extension we considered the effect on our neighbours when designing it and excluded features that we thought might annoy people

these days everyones understandably trying to squeeze the most out of overpriced property but in most cases the planning authorities just won't allow a development that tries to turn a house on a modest site into a mansion! You're totally within your rights and shoudln't feel guilty for objecting
 
I'd agree with Toby: it is possible to keep good relations with good will on both sides.

In our case, we wanted to extend and showed the plans to both our immediate neighbours before applying for planning. On one side they were fine, but on the other side they had an issue with us building up to the boundary: basically their house is on the boundary, so it would have meant turning them from a detached to semi-detached. Even though it reduced the space we were looking for by quite a bit, we accepted their point and changed the plans before applying for permission. There were no objections, and we got the permission.

We're still on excellent terms with our neighbours.

The point I'd make is that (a) you have to stand your ground: let your feelings be known and (b) tread carefully, and try and maintain good relations if at all possible.

Personally I wouldn't bother to engage an architect to prepare any objections, but I can see the advantage of being able to point to some other third party.
 
Re: Neighbour's Proposed Extension: update

He also had plans to extend the front ground floor by 1.5m. He has his PP sign (lasr date for submissions today) up for this element and I'm not objecting to this. However earlier this week a massive skip appeared in his driveway and a mini-digger has begun digging some serious foundations OUT THE BACK! No sign of PP at all! Rang SDCC planning and they said to email them and they'd look into it. To be fair, he might've modified his plans, but if so, he didn't tell me...
 
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