Neighbour built 40sq m Garden Accommodation

Many thanks for responses.
When I comment on noise, it's actually the banging of kids running within the cabin. If it were part of a permanent structure, we wouldn't be subjected to this noise. It's not about kids playing, I have a young family and I'm fully aware of regular noise that comes from having them. My neighbour would not have heard our noise in their house because of bricks and mortar. Think of a kid running in an un-insulated shed and the noise being reverberated to the exterior and therefore into our closely situated kitchen. I'm not exaggerating when I compare it to a bass drum.
My concerns for privacy is that the double glass doors on the cabin are above my 6 foot fence and when I'm at my back door, I can look into their wooden house. If it's legal, I heighten my fence. If it's not, why have been put in a situation where I have to?
There are no winners in this situation.
The structure is currently built within a garden of a house, where 2 bedrooms and a living room are un-used by the sole occupant. If they required further living space, it could have been built using the 25sq m garden room caveat that excludes the need for PP.

I will take the advise on board and get my own architectural opinion both on the re-sale value of our own house and the legality of the structure that is overlooking our kitchen and garden.

I'm fully aware of our current housing crisis. What if we all took this attitude and filled our gardens with separate structures that are unregulated? Before you know it, every savvy landlord will be building these in garden spaces. What about fire safety? There are no windows, just double doors.
If it's legal, then yes, I have no say in noise and intrusion. If it's not legal, then I guess we have to deal with this head on as suggested.

The neighbours were told by their building company that they did not require planning permission. If they have been mis-sold a product that is not fit for purpose due to legal issues, should they not have redress from the bunch of cowboys who are allowed to continue to profiteer from naive people?

I didn't come on here to be judged on a moral high ground, I was curious if anybody knew the law before I proceeded down that route. It's all well and good folk judging me until it comes to your own doorstep. We've spent a number of years renovating and investing in our house thinking it was a long term future we had here. If I don't address it, we feel we have to move.
Apologies for the lack of direct quotes, still a newbie and learning how to include these.

It's not a question of anyone being judged, simply that other people will see your situation through different eyes. Not better eyes, not worse, just different. I would hope that a different view would be useful to you.

anxiousannie said:

If it's legal, then yes, I have no say in noise and intrusion. If it's not legal, then I guess we have to deal with this head on as suggested.

Click to expand...

If the development is legal, that does not mean you cannot make a complaint about noise. First to your neighbours then to the council.

anxiousannie said:

Also, they must have had other kids in, but it sounded like a bass drum in our kitchen.

Click to expand...

It sounds like you are living next to my neighbours. You can check out your situation with the law on exempted developments that is contained in Schedule 2 of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001 – 2015. These are statutory instruments. If this is a garden room or equivalent, the providers of these off-the-shelf constructions know the planning laws, and I'm informed they don't build them unless they are within the scope of the regulations. Of course the cabin is not supposed to be used for overnight accommodation but you're not going to get enforcement. People just tell the Corpo it's for a disabled person who cannot negotiate stairs, etc. Even if they are not particularly noisy you will get noise if / when they return at night from the cabin to the main house. Walls can't be more than 2 metres high at the rear, so you should investigate planting bamboo. This should grow relatively quickly and will block out the view into your kitchen, but not the noise.

in my previous home, my neighbour put up one of those big seomra wooden cabins, v. nice looking, told me that he didn't need planning permission. Then he rents out the cabin, and then a while later moved in to his girlfriend's house and rented his main house as well, so I said to hell with this & wrote in to the council.
it turns out that the seomra cabin itself didn't need p.p, but as soon as you hook up utilities it's no longer portable & does need p.permission.
He had to change its use to a domestic store and to my knowledge it's never been rented out since & that was about 5 years ago, an expensive mistake
you should just write a letter to the council and let them deal with it, i wouldn't spend money hiring professionals for advice. They didn't care about your feelings, so i wouldn't be too pushed about hurting theirs...

1. Check with planning office.
2. If they have broken the law it is not your problem do not feel it is.
3. What if you for some reason you want to sell your own property in the future. This could turn around and be a problem to you.
4.Do everything by the book. Be straight up
5. If there is no planning and you feel that the build is affecting your life style act.

Hope this is all sorted. Good luck.

Last thing planning regulations are in place to stop people building what they like where they like ans ultimately harming the environment or other peoples quality of life.

Deal with it straight away - before this new family become too settled in. You must act quickly - you are entitled to your privacy and I would think they are not entitled to do that.

I really appreciate all of you taking the time to reply. I'll have to deal with this in the new year. I'm a complete softy and this is why the whole issue has caused a lot of stress. I don't think I have it in me to go directly to planning and instead I will get an architect report drawn up. If it's not legal, the problem will be transferred to my neighbour and if it is legal, I'll put up privacy screening learn to live with it.

in a very similar situation myself anxiousannie, we are new on our street 2 1/2 years. this summer neighbour's right next door daughter built a 2 bed log cabin in the back garden. they did not get planning permission which I can save you the research is required. there thoughts were we will never sell this house. now I look out my back window to it every morning. complete disaster but they seem to be popping up everywhere and its no solution to housing crisis.

Why don't you just check the online planning database for whatever area you are in? Its all online.

anxiousannie said:

When I comment on noise, it's actually the banging of kids running within the cabin. .

Click to expand...

The regulations on noise are available on the ENFO website http://www.askaboutireland.ie/enfo/irelands-environment/noise/. The problem is that the noise regulations are concerned with persistent loud noise, i.e. “noise is so loud/so continuous/so repeated/of such duration or pitch/occurring at such times as to give reasonable cause for annoyance ”, but your situation, like many others, is due to 'normal' noise that is now obtrusive and persistent because of the proximity of the cabin to your dwelling. See the Environmental Protection Agency Act1992 (Noise) Regulations,1994 (S.I.No.179 of 1994) http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/si/179/made/en/print?q=SI+179&years=1994.

Clara16 said:

in a very similar situation myself anxiousannie, we are new on our street 2 1/2 years. this summer neighbour's right next door daughter built a 2 bed log cabin in the back garden. they did not get planning permission which I can save you the research is required. there thoughts were we will never sell this house. now I look out my back window to it every morning. complete disaster but they seem to be popping up everywhere and its no solution to housing crisis.

Click to expand...

Ciara, Did you consider reporting it to the Planning Authority? . It's just a big pile of crap that I don't need right now. Even though I'm soft natured, I'm not taking this. If it's illegal (likely), it's wrong of them to expect me not to have a say in something that impacts our house so much.

Thanks for the links to that PMU
The noise most likely will be classified as 'normal'. That's the frustrating part. If their cabin is legal and the noise is 'normal' it'll be an unfortunate decision for us to sell our home. It'll cost us thousands in moving costs and in this shortage of houses for sale, it'll be difficult to even find one to move to without moving our kids out of school and causing them stress.

as we were new to the road we didn't want to rock the boat too much and we had started off on a good relationship with neighbours on both sides. we are actually in the process of our own planning application for an extension and our architect has said he will have to note their cabin on plans and it may be problematic for them. both houses either side of us already have extensions so I don't see their being an issue with our planning but it may open a can of worms for them.
noise isn't an issue for us thankfully yet as baby is small, it just looks awful from my bedroom window anytime I look out one of them is on their deck smoking staring back up at me.

I think I will get our own planning over the line and see what happens. the problem with reporting is they don't hide the name and address of the person who makes the complaint so it makes it all very difficult.

anxiousannie said:

I think that's why I'll present them with a report stating what they have done is illegal, if that's how it turns out. It's up to them to pursue their builder for legal redress.

Click to expand...

I would be shocked if your neighbours didn't know that this was illegal from the outset. I'd pay no attention to their faux shock on the front or the builders comments that it's all above board.

Clara16 said:

I think I will get our own planning over the line and see what happens. the problem with reporting is they don't hide the name and address of the person who makes the complaint so it makes it all very difficult.

Click to expand...

You can make anonymous complaints, as well as asking to be kept anonymous. Of course, if there's only one party that is impacted by it, it won't be particular hard to guess anyways....

As a first step, and seeing as they already made changes regarding height, could you make them aware of the noise? Some sound cladding or even a carpet might significantly reduce the noise coming into you.
Obviously it won't do anything about the overlooking or the legality of the building but it would at least show some effort on your part to seek to mitigate impact and will give you a good idea of their current thinking.

Ciara, I think you're right to avoid any confrontation before planning goes ahead! Typical Ireland, where the person who is in the right and has done no wrong, is not protected by anonymity.

Dereko - If it's that loud in our house, I'm not sure how it goes un-noticed inside the room. It would also just kick the can further down the street about it detracting value from our house by having such a large structure right beside our garden. If it is an illegal structure, our house will be affected.

OP, log a complaint with the local Planning Enforcement section of the council.
Your details remain confidential, even in the case of court proceedings and they are not released even under FOI requests.

The 40Sq. M rule applies, and yes they can have bedrooms in that 40 Sq. M extension, but it must comply with other requirements such as garden space remaining being 25 Sq. M at least, and it must be connected to the rear of the property by way of solid, building regulation compliant construction. For example, it cannot be simply connected by a Perspex lean too structure.

Log the complaint, and the planning section will do all the leg work and for regularisation or reduction/removal of the structure.

And yes, I have seen many of these types of structures being removed over the last few years.

Hi

I do a lot of house extension planning applications and I can tell you this is an illegal project. Your neighbours are in breech of planning law and have actually committed an offense. All you need to do is contact enforcement in the planning office and they will inspect the structure and take action. You can download a document online called PL5 planning around the house, and this outlines what you can and can't do. Hope this helps

Just my tuppence worth.

We built a 40sq m extension onto our house 5yrs ago. At the time (not sure if laws have changed) we didnt require planning permission.
Or at least that what the architect told us!
Being the sceptic that I am, I looked into it myself and true enough, building extensions up to 40sqm did not require PP....unless....the extension building has a window that overlooks another property whose boundary is within 11metres of the extension.

You may have some scope in that regard for some monetary compensation, but I would expect between legal costs and challenges (and peace of mind) it would not be worth it.

But as I say, thats just my tuppence worth.