Mysterious update of 2019 tax returns received today.

Ciru75 said:
How are revenue raising an assessment for 2019 now? That's outside the 4-year time limit?
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There is no time limit on Revenue's side.

I heard of yet another case bad data from Welfare today. This time on the Contributory State Pension data supplied to Revenue they pulled an extra 200 euro out of thin air.
 
Towger said:
I heard of yet another case bad data from Welfare today. This time on the Contributory State Pension data supplied to Revenue they pulled an extra 200 euro out of thin air.
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That was probably the €200 Cost of Living payment that Social Welfare paid many groups, including State pensioners in April 2023.

Some pensioners (including me!) forgot to include it in their annual tax return. Fortunately, I requested a payments statement from Social Welfare through MyGov before I filed my tax return and spotted the omission

Minister Humphreys outlines payment details of €200 Cost of Living Support

www.gov.ie
 
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Dr Strangelove said:
As a general principle the state shouldn’t be seeking tax with unreasonable delay.

Four years is ridiculous and suggests a big failure in public administration.
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The fundamental principle of the the income tax system is of self-assessment, with the onus on the individual taxpayer to ensure that they have paid the correct amount of tax. This onus is not displaced in the case of PAYE-only taxpayers, who are still responsible for ensuring that they have neither overpaid nor underpaid their tax.
 
Towger said:
There is no time limit on Revenue's side.

I heard of yet another case bad data from Welfare today. This time on the Contributory State Pension data supplied to Revenue they pulled an extra 200 euro out of thin air.
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There actually is a time limit on the Revenue side - in the case of a person other than a chargeable person, section 959AB TCA 1997 provides a strict four-year time limit from the end of the year of assessment, other than in cases of fraud or neglect.

This is a different time limit to that which applies to chargeable persons (i.e. Form 11 filers, under section 959AA) which is four years from the end of the year in which a "full and true" return has been filed.

@Grizzly if you are correct in your statement that what you received was a PAYE balancing statement (as a non-chargeable person) rather than an income tax assessment, then you may have recourse to appeal the issuing of the statement in the first place.

You could/should do this in tandem with raising a complaint through the CS4 procedure, since it appears to be based on faulty data from DSP anyway.
 
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In other words there is no limit. As the Revenue like to point out, ignorance is not an excuse.
 
Towger said:
In other words there is no limit. As the Revenue like to point out, ignorance is not an excuse.
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Tell me how it constitutes fraud or neglect on the part of a PAYE employee or pensioner to marginally underpay income tax on pension or benefits income where Revenue and the DSP can't get their act together to communicate the relevant details to each other within 4 years of the tax year end.

I expect you'll struggle.
 
Towger said:
In other words there is no limit. As the Revenue like to point out, ignorance is not an excuse.
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With respect, I think I can safely say that I have substantially more experience of dealing with arguments about the meaning of those words than you do, and my advice to the OP stands.
 
Communications of relevant details is only a relatively new phenomenon. Since Revenue's own IT staff moved into positions of management.
Think of all the years were people on both State and Personal pensions were not properly taxed at all.
 
Towger said:
Communications of relevant details is only a relatively new phenomenon. Since Revenue's own IT staff moved into positions of management.
Think of all the years were people on both State and Personal pensions were not properly taxed at all.
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That underlines rather than detracts from my point. That said, it's really a minor issue.
 
torblednam said:
With respect, I think I can safely say that I have substantially more experience of dealing with arguments about the meaning of those words than you do, and my advice to the OP stands.
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I would like to hear your views on Revenue's taxation of Kerry Co-Op shares.
 
Towger said:
The arrival of Income Tax bills for previous years from Revenue, out of the blue.
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Which, to the best of my knowledge were within the applicable 4-year time limit as the affected dairy farmers were Form 11 filers. I'm still not clear how a segue into talking about that is relevant to this thread?
 
Strange, but I have also received a similar update from the Revenue relating to 2019.

Around that time I was on Illness Benefit, changing to Invalidity Pension and then to State Pension. These three payments happened from 2018 in to 2019.

Back in 2019 I contacted Social Welfare asking for a letter stating the amounts I received from the 01/01/2019 to the end of the year. I was sent out 3 letters and made my return to Revenue.

Fast forward to 2024 and I get a letter stating that I owe tax due to an update from Social welfare to Revenue in respect of 2019.

The new figures presented were different to those that I returned back in 2019. So I contacted Social Welfare asking for clarification.

I now have 4 different sets of figures for each type of payment.

The original figures received back in 2019. The new figures from the Revenue. The latest amended figures received from Social Welfare. The figures extracted by me from my 2019 bank statements.

It is a total mess.

As far as I am concerned my figures are correct as they relate to actual payments received and taken from my bank statements.

It appears that Social Welfare just send you the figures for the amounts approved rather than actually paid.

So they have mixed up year 2018 with 2019. Just because something was approved in 2018 does not mean that I received the payment in 2018.

Please check your received payments very carefully if you are transitioning between different types of payments before making your tax return and keep a record of same.
 
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