Murphy Commission - A real reason to Stand Up

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VOR

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This week we have seen public service unions protest in accordance with their members' mandate. That is their right.
We also had the protest over a football match outside the French embassy. Hardly a reason to protest but hey, each to their own.

Now the Murphy Commission has shown shocking disregard by the Catholic Church for the citizens of this country. The most vunerable citizens at that.

There is no doubt that the reaction of the Church authorities to reports of clerical child sexual abuse in the early years of the commission’s remit was to ensure that as few people as possible knew of the individual priest’s problem. “There was little or no concern for the welfare of the abuse child or for the welfare of other children who might come into contact with the priest. Complainants were often met with denial, arrogance and cover-up and with incompetence and incomprehension in some cases. Suspicions were rarely acted on.”

I for one believe that if there is one reason to protest this year then this is it.
 
whatever about protests, I think the public have made their attitude to the church abundantly clear with vastly reduced attendance at mass and nobody taking up vocations. it'll wither and die by itself. Which makes the christian brothers donation of further money and land so cynical - they wont be around themselves to enjoy it so its no loss to them
 

Priests still control our schools. Is it not worth protesting to have this evil removed from our childrens' lives??
 
I'd say the issue of the clergy 'controlling' schools is one thats rapidly losing traction. There's few enough of them left, and they get less and less respect from people. Admittedly I don't have kids, but it doesn't excercise me really. Most schools have a management team made up largely of lay people anyhow - same for the staff
 
VOR said:
Priests still control our schools. Is it not worth protesting to have this evil removed from our childrens' lives??
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People are free to move their children to a different school.

People can start their own primary school, with a non-church patron, if they wish.

Churches do not want to be the patrons of 90%-100% of schools. Indeed, they are planning to move out of many schools.

However, many parents want their children to go to a church-sponsored school. In the UK and USA, church schools are very popular, as the quality of education is felt to be higher than a state-run school.
 
I think firstly, we should give some credit where it is due to Diarmaid Martin for having the courage to do the right thing and open the files on what happened in Dublin. He strikes me as a very different man to his predecessor or to Magee in Cloyne, the kind of man we could do with more of in Ireland. Likewise I believe it is important that we don't tar all priests with the same brush. The vast majority are not child abusers, I know some personally, in a different diocese, but they are embarrased, ashamed and feel personally guilty for some of the things that their colleagues and bosses did, even though they themselves have nothing to feel guilty about.

My mother grew up in the 50s, I remember her saying once that back then, they didn't go to church to worship God, but rather it seemed to worship the priests. Times have changed and in the long term, I think the church will be better for it. I have to admit, I go to mass most Sundays and crowds are up and I am seeing more younger people attending.

There is still an issue with schools, but Desmond Martin has admitted that that is not a long term option and will have to change.

I don't know what a protest will achieve, many of the abusers are dead as are the people who protected them. so who would we be protesting against? Would we then march on and protest outside Gardai headquarters, then maybe on to Swim Ireland and where next.? To me as a nation we would be far better off seeing that the people who were abused are taken care of properly, especially those who perhaps fled the country or who have fallen on hard times.

Maybe instead of a day of protest we should have a Day of Rememberance. The Nov 11th cermonies in the UK have always impressed me, perhaps something similer here, and maybe a proper day of Rememberance, close the pubs and shops and everything and stop and think what happened our fellow country men and women?

I've got a kid, think I'll give her an extra big hug tonight and be glad she's growing up in 21st century
 
Mpsox said:
I've got a kid, think I'll give her an extra big hug tonight and be glad she's growing up in 21st century
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Here's to never letting anything like this happen again. We should cherish our childrens' future and security.

A protest, IMO, would be a worthwhile exercise. Sure, its not going to change the world but it would show solidarity with those that have suffered and bring shame on those who abused. I took to the streets about the Iraq war. I knew it would not make a lick of difference to Blair or Bush at the time. But it brought me to the streets out of a sense of justice. Looking back, it makes their actions seem all the more shameful. History will show they acted against the people. The same is true of those who peacefully demonstrated against apartheid and Vietnam.

Perhaps the powers that be now need to see that the country will not stand by again as thousands of our people are abused and that we demand answers for the cover ups.

And I hope that I am never asked by my kids why our generation let these people get away with all that has happened.
 
People are free to move their children to a different school.
Should they move mid term or wait until the end of the school year?


People can start their own primary school, with a non-church patron, if they wish.
I don't think that is realistic. From a cost perspective if nothing else. Historically churches were given control of schools due to the abdication of government in running schools and churches now have a monopoly when it comes to running schools. While there may be no religious orders teaching in the schools, the religious ethos is still very much evident.


Churches do not want to be the patrons of 90%-100% of schools. Indeed, they are planning to move out of many schools.
I have heard individual Bishops say this and I have heard individual Bishops say that the Catholic Church should not relinquish control. However, there does not seem to be a formal position adopted by the church as a whole.


However, many parents want their children to go to a church-sponsored school. In the UK and USA, church schools are very popular, as the quality of education is felt to be higher than a state-run school.
At least they have a choice.
 

I agree. I believe that Dairmuid Martin should be applauded for opening the records. On the other hand, Archbishop Desmond O'Connell has been mentioned in todays report as covering up evidence and as such he should now be charged as an accessory.
 
i really dont understand this cover up & secrecy thing.
Imagine being involved in a sports club with different age groups and you found that a coach was raping kids, how does the idea of cover up even enter someones head!!! Surely you want them out & prosecuted (probably beat them 1/2 to death). Not move them to another age group in the club or send them to another team. Again how does "we need to cover that up" enter someones head, its a sick thought process and have others agree. Im not even talking about the offences themselves. I palpatate when i hear about this stuff.

Any other organiziation would not exist today if it had that level of offences and cover ups.

Prosecute, prosecute, prosecute and take all assets!!!!
 
The_Banker said:
On the other hand, Archbishop Desmond O'Connell has been mentioned in todays report as covering up evidence and as such he should now be charged as an accessory.
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I think that is an interesting point, I'm no lawyer, but I cannot understand why the people who covered this up, be they parish priests, bishops, Gardai or whoever have never been charged. Is there a valid legal reason why they shouldn't?
 
Complainer said:
Are you waiting for someone else to organise the protest?
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I have to admit that in a way I am. I'm not what you would call a radical public leader. I have demonstrated before out of a sense of unity with the organisers and the cause. I have never organised a protest myself. There are many groups who have campaigned for this report for years. If they feel that a demonstration is required I will take to the streets.

I threw this out there as I find it strange that we have seen demonstrations against Shell, banks, hospital closures and the entire nation of France this year.
I still consider this worthy of a public statement of solidarity.
 

Not trying to be flippant here dockingtrade but the reason was that The Catholic Church deemed itself more important than the crime committed and even more important than the victims of the crime. The church had an exalted place in society and that was protected by the senior members of that church.
An abused orphan was a mere plaything to sicko priests/brothers and a hindrance to the hierarchy of the church who strove to protect there exalted position.
The organisation was more important than the individual.
 
Granted the church and priests committed some serious abuses.This has been known for the last 30 years.For some reason the story only makes waves when we are in a recession.
 
sunrock said:
Granted the church and priests committed some serious abuses.This has been known for the last 30 years.For some reason the story only makes waves when we are in a recession.
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This has not been known for 30 years. It may have been known by the hierarchy but not by the general Catholic congregation. After the shock of the Eamon Casey revelations in the early 90s people began to speak out and after a long long time there pleas were listened to.
This story has been making waves for 15 years, we have only been in recession for about 2 years.
It is only in the last few years that the Catholic Church in Ireland has stepped up to the plate and admitted the wrong doing.
 
MP Sox

That really is a great, very balanced post on a difficult issue.

In particular, I liked this comment:


I remember my mother saying once that back in the 50's, they didn't go to church to worship God, but rather it seemed to worship the priests.
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Brendan
 



You're right, VOR. Started doing it a few years ago when I stopped paying Easter Dues, Christmas Dues, Holy Souls Collections, etc. Money talks.....
 


Mpsox, this is as good a post as I've seen on AAM. Superb!

I agree that Dermot Martin looked genuinely sorry tonight and I do think he's a different breed to his predecessors. (And I have to admit to a nasty knee jerk delight in seeing John Charles McQuaid given top billing on the main headline on Sky News!).

Totally agree with you about Magee in Cloyne. I hope I'm not breaching posting guidelines when I say that I heard a lot of rumours about him when he came back from Rome as Bishop of Cloyne. And look how it all ended for him....

Like you, I know a lot of priests. Many are personal friends and former friends from school. And like your friends, they are embarrassed, mortified and ashamed, despite only being guilty by association. I don't go to mass or pay dues anymore and my priest friends totally understand where I'm coming from. Like I understand their dedication to the job they love.

Your mother sounds like a very wise woman. It sounds like she has a wisdom that is acquired by living life rather than by attending university.

I think the schools issue will take care of itself, in time.

But I have to admit that the most surprising (and disappointing) aspect of the report for me, given that we knew what to expect about the clergy, was the collusion of members of An Garda Síochana, in the continuity of abuse.

And I think that your version of a meaningful Day of Rememberance is a proper and correct one. I can't see it happening but, if it does, you'll be able to take a little bit of the credit for it.

Well done. Hope you enjoyed the hug!
 
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