Moving PPR from house to recently other recently purchased house.

[Jugovic]

Hi all,

I have a few questions on whether it is possible to move my PPR status from one house I own to the other. 3 years ago I purchased my first home and have lived there since, with a purchase price underneath 127,000 Euro. I therefore presume there would be no clawback on stamp duty if I was to rent out the property? Would there be claw back on interest relief at source I have paid up to that date were I to rent the property?

A few months ago I purchased a second hand-house in another part of the country, and it looks like I could be moving down there. I have paid stamp duty in full for this property (@4%, value 230K). I took out an investment style mortgage (interest only, NIB) and put myself down as an owner occupier on the title / deeds. Is this in itself a problem? What would be the difference if I was to have put down invester on the title / deeds (especially from a tax viewpoint)?

I believe that how I deem which house to be my PPR is dependent on how I do my tax returns?! Or is there another issue that I haven't considered?

Also, (looking into my crystal ball in the future) would I be correct in assuming that if I was able to make my second house my PPR for one year, I would then be able to sell it on and not have to pay CGT on it (as I am deeming myself as resident of that house for one year).

Would appreicate any input on all of the above!! Thanks.

 

[Jugovic]

Hi all,

Have reviewed and would like to re-write some of the above..When I stated 'I believe that how I deem which house to be my PPR is dependent on how I do my tax returns?!' I ment 'is dependent on how I show my rental returns on both houses to the revenue'. Also, I could show my new house as PPR by having my name on various bills (ESB/GAS) etc. Would this be sufficent?

Hope I've explained myself fully!!

 

[ClubMan]

3 years ago I purchased my first home and have lived there since, with a purchase price underneath 127,000 Euro. I therefore presume there would be no clawback on stamp duty if I was to rent out the property?

Would an investor have been exempt from SD on such a purchase 3 years ago? If so then if you rent it out within 5 years of purchase then you presumably have no clawback SD liability.

Would there be claw back on interest relief at source I have paid up to that date were I to rent the property?

Don't think so.

A few months ago I purchased a second hand-house in another part of the country, and it looks like I could be moving down there. I have paid stamp duty in full for this property (@4%, value 230K). I took out an investment style mortgage (interest only, NIB) and put myself down as an owner occupier on the title / deeds. Is this in itself a problem?

If you are not actually an owner occupier and are not sure that you will be presently then I don't see how you can declare yourseld to be one. Was 4% investor or non FTB owner occupier SD? If you are or will be an owner occupier why did you take out an investment mortgage (presumably at a higher rate than normal)?

What would be the difference if I was to have put down invester on the title / deeds (especially from a tax viewpoint)?

Where exactly were you declaring this status?

I believe that how I deem which house to be my PPR is dependent on how I do my tax returns?! Or is there another issue that I haven't considered?

This is not a discretionary issue. Your PPR is the one which you live in normally. Sounds to me like your original property is still your PPR.

What tax returns are you doing if you have not rented either property out?

Also, (looking into my crystal ball in the future) would I be correct in assuming that if I was able to make my second house my PPR for one year, I would then be able to sell it on and not have to pay CGT on it (as I am deeming myself as resident of that house for one year).

You can't make it your PPR or deem yourself resident - it is either your PPR or it's not. If it is your PPR and never rented out the any resale gain is exempt from CGT.

If in doubt get independent professional advice.

 

[ClubMan]

Also, I could show my new house as PPR by having my name on various bills (ESB/GAS) etc. Would this be sufficent?

No - as above it is only your PPR if you actually live there normally/full time. Which property is your PPR is not at your discretion to decide.

 

[Jugovic]

Appreciate the feedback Clubman, like to clarify a few things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clubman http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=300065#post300065
No - as above it is only your PPR if you actually live there normally/full time. Which property is your PPR is not at your discretion to decide.


I am going to live in my second property in a few months time. So yes, this will then be my PPR. If I was then to sell this property in a year or so, how can I prove to the revenue that this is my PPR (rather than my first house) to avoid paying CGT. Or do you not have to prove that when selling?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugovichttp://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=300065#post300065
What would be the difference if I was to have put down invester on the title / deeds (especially from a tax viewpoint)? .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clubman
Where exactly were you declaring this status?

I suppose this is a general question. Sa, for example, you are down as investor on the title and deeds of a property, you can still live in the house fulltime and for it then to be your PPR. You could also then in the future sell the property and avoid paying CGT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clubmanhttp://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=300065#post300065
If you are not actually an owner occupier and are not sure that you will be presently then I don't see how you can declare yourseld to be one. Was 4% investor or non FTB owner occupier SD? If you are or will be an owner occupier why did you take out an investment mortgage (presumably at a higher rate than normal)?


I took out an investment mortgage to allow interest only payments on the property. When I was then signing the contract with the solicitor, I was asked whether I wanted to put down 'investor' or 'owner occupier' on the title and deeds. I choose 'owner occupier'.

Is there a problem in that my mortgage type is 'investment' but I am down as an 'owner occupier' on the title and deeds?

 

[ClubMan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clubman http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=300065#post300065
No - as above it is only your PPR if you actually live there normally/full time. Which property is your PPR is not at your discretion to decide.

I am going to live in my second property in a few months time. So yes, this will then be my PPR. If I was then to sell this property in a year or so, how can I prove to the revenue that this is my PPR (rather than my first house) to avoid paying CGT. Or do you not have to prove that when selling?!

You don't have to prove it unless asked. CGT is a self assessment tax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugovichttp://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=300065#post300065
What would be the difference if I was to have put down invester on the title / deeds (especially from a tax viewpoint)? .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clubman
Where exactly were you declaring this status?

I suppose this is a general question. Sa, for example, you are down as investor on the title and deeds of a property, you can still live in the house fulltime and for it then to be your PPR. You could also then in the future sell the property and avoid paying CGT.

Do the title/deeds of a property say anything about your buyer status (owner occupier or investor)? I didn't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clubmanhttp://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=300065#post300065
If you are not actually an owner occupier and are not sure that you will be presently then I don't see how you can declare yourseld to be one. Was 4% investor or non FTB owner occupier SD? If you are or will be an owner occupier why did you take out an investment mortgage (presumably at a higher rate than normal)?

I took out an investment mortgage to allow interest only payments on the property. When I was then signing the contract with the solicitor, I was asked whether I wanted to put down 'investor' or 'owner occupier' on the title and deeds. I choose 'owner occupier'.

If you are going to move into/live in this property as your PPR then I guess that's fine. So by investment mortgage you simply mean interest only? The two terms are not actually interchangeble and an owner occupier could have an interest only mortgage too. Note also that some investor mortgages charge higher rates than their owner occupier equivalents.

Is there a problem in that my mortgage type is 'investment' but I am down as an 'owner occupier' on the title and deeds?

See above. I don't think so.

If in doubt get professional advice. Run these questions by your solicitor for example maybe.

 

[Jugovic]

Hi Clubman,

Thanks for the feedback. In response to a few queries, yes, it was an investment style mortgage that I took out, where I put owner occupier on the deeds. Possibily this was a mistake on my own part in that the rates I received would be worse for an investment mortgage versus an owner occupier rate.

I have since had a bid accepted for another (3rd) property which I believe is an excellent price. I have had loan approval accepted from a bank, and have explained to them that I will be moving house from my first property into this one. BUT my solicitor has advised me that I will need to put investor on the deeds even though I have had a mortgage approved as residential owner occupier. Is this acceptable? What is the potential pit falls of this? Could this cause me problems in the future?

I will obviously not be claiming interest relief at source with this property.