Move Brexit border to Scotland and England!

WolfeTone

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265
Saw this idea in a national newspaper. Thought it tongue-in-cheek, probably was, but seeing as the loopers are still pedddling fantasy exits, might as well consider all options.
It is hard to keep up, BJ promising again "under no circumstances" customs and border controls in Ireland, while simultaneously his Home Secretary Priti Patel, promising to "end the free movement of people once and for all" - direct quote.

So to the above proposal. Moving customs and border controls to the English/Scottish border would resolve alot of issues.

- It would end DUP demand that NI not be treated differently from rest of UK as they will be aligned with Scotland.

- The countries in the UK that voted Remain would remain in CU and SM, but simultaneously leave the EU as per the Withdrawal Agreement and the referendum result

- The countries in the UK that voted leave could have a clean break, or whatever arrangement that may be agreed upon during transition period.

Everyone happy.
 

elacsaplau

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599
Nice one WolfeTone,

The only question I'd have is whether your accent is sufficiently plummy to sell this to the Little Inglinders?
 

PatrickSmithUS

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Messages
14
Saw this idea in a national newspaper. Thought it tongue-in-cheek, probably was, but seeing as the loopers are still pedddling fantasy exits, might as well consider all options.
It is hard to keep up, BJ promising again "under no circumstances" customs and border controls in Ireland, while simultaneously his Home Secretary Priti Patel, promising to "end the free movement of people once and for all" - direct quote.

So to the above proposal. Moving customs and border controls to the English/Scottish border would resolve alot of issues.

- It would end DUP demand that NI not be treated differently from rest of UK as they will be aligned with Scotland.

- The countries in the UK that voted Remain would remain in CU and SM, but simultaneously leave the EU as per the Withdrawal Agreement and the referendum result

- The countries in the UK that voted leave could have a clean break, or whatever arrangement that may be agreed upon during transition period.

Everyone happy.
And what of Wales?
 

Royanne

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2
Nice one WolfeTone,

The only question I'd have is whether your accent is sufficiently plummy to sell this to the Little Inglinders?
Just because the oirish have comical accents doesn't mean they have to be jealous of others. Lets hope the UK still allows the cattle boats to enter the U.K. and the Paddies can still go there after Brexit.
 

Conan

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963
Both Norn Ireland and Scotland voted to Remain. Wales voted to leave. So seems like a good compromise to me.
 

Drakon

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365
Both Norn Ireland and Scotland voted to Remain. Wales voted to leave. So seems like a good compromise to me.
True, but both Great Britain and the United Kingdom voted to leave. And London, the capital of England, of GB and of the UK, voted to remain.
Gibraltar was the district that had the highest remain percentage. And they’ve never been in customs union.

Donegal voted against abortion and Roscommon voted against gay marriage.

Statistic analysis makes no difference.
The UK voted to Leave the EU.
Ireland voted in favour of abortion and get marriage.
Get over it.
 

odyssey06

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Messages
1,611
Maybe they could leave N Ireland in the EEA.

Or, and this is tongue in cheek... as the Daily Mash notes, all this haggling over N Ireland has created the global impression that this is one of the most desirable territories on the planet.
The UK should sell N Ireland to Qatar, or try to swap it back for Hong Kong. Problem solved. For now.
 

WolfeTone

Registered User
Messages
265
Lots of excitement in Brexitland this morning. Not sure what the potential 'breakthrough' could be, hardly a compromise to move the Brexit border to England/Scotland?

My guess is that Boris will cede the backstop to Ireland but in a different form of words.
The backstop will be facilitated. A carrot will be thrown to DUP that the assembly, once up and running, will have oversight on any dilution of NI's status within the UK (meaningless, but symbolic).
Wright Bus to be 'magically' saved. Perhaps investment to return ship building to Belfast? How enticing and symbolic of Brexit would it be if, upon Britainnia's quest to trade independently with the rest of the world post-brexit, that the British government invested in its own ship-building in Belfast?
Arguments over customs borders in the Irish sea would evaporate. It might even be enough to pass an Irish language Act. The Shinners could crow about how their resistance paid off, Unionists could dismiss it as an irrelevance relative to the prospect of Britain ruling the waves once more, as Britain sets sail to trade independently.
All from the heart of Belfast.
 

Duke of Marmalade

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2,420
Lots of excitement in Brexitland this morning. Not sure what the potential 'breakthrough' could be, hardly a compromise to move the Brexit border to England/Scotland?

My guess is that Boris will cede the backstop to Ireland but in a different form of words.
The backstop will be facilitated. A carrot will be thrown to DUP that the assembly, once up and running, will have oversight on any dilution of NI's status within the UK (meaningless, but symbolic).
Wright Bus to be 'magically' saved. Perhaps investment to return ship building to Belfast? How enticing and symbolic of Brexit would it be if, upon Britainnia's quest to trade independently with the rest of the world post-brexit, that the British government invested in its own ship-building in Belfast?
Arguments over customs borders in the Irish sea would evaporate. It might even be enough to pass an Irish language Act. The Shinners could crow about how their resistance paid off, Unionists could dismiss it as an irrelevance relative to the prospect of Britain ruling the waves once more, as Britain sets sail to trade independently.
All from the heart of Belfast.
Something big has happened. Simple Simon said the other day that this is not a question of money. Maybe Boris promised to pay our National Debt. Leo would surely bite his hand off for that. As George Bernard Shaw remarked, we are all prostitutes, just haggling about the price.
 

Early Riser

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629
According to the IT the proposal seems to be along the lines of NI staying in the UK customs union but agreeing to collect and administer EU tariffs on good entering NI from the UK.

Seems to mean that there will be customs as well as regulatory checks on the Irish Sea on good coming from the UK to NI. If the EU tariff is higher on the goods than the UK tariff, then this higher EU tariff will be levied. If the goods are ultimately delivered/sold in NI then the importer can reclaim the difference in the tariff. If the goods move on to the ROI there is no rebate.

It would seem to give NI the advantage of customs access to both the EU and UK customs unions but at the expense of the extra administrative burden of collecting EU tariff (and refund, where applicable).

This seems like somethng both sides can sell. Arlene can say "we are staying fully in the UK customs union - which is all we ever wanted" while we get no borders on the island of Ireland.
 

Duke of Marmalade

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2,420
It would seem to give NI the advantage of customs access to both the EU and UK customs unions but at the expense of the extra administrative burden of collecting EU tariff (and refund, where applicable).
That seems really unworkable. So NI folk can buy their Mercs tariff free through RoI and their Jags from GB tariff free. Huge tariff advantage in, say, a car manufacturer establishing in NI. It gets its raw materials from whichever bloc is the cheapest and without any tariffs and it sells its end product to both blocs again without tariffs. Unless there are checks at Rosslare and/or Cherbourg etc. to ascertain whether goods coming from RoI originated in NI. Would that be acceptable
 

Early Riser

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So NI folk can buy their Mercs tariff free through RoI and their Jags from GB tariff free.
Customs and tariffs are beyond my ken but that is not my understnding. The NI folks would have to pay UK tariffs in NI. If purchasing in the Republic they would have to pay EU tariffs. There would be no tariff free. However, the devil will be in the details anyway and these will be the make or break points.

And there is always VRT!
 

Duke of Marmalade

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2,420
Customs and tariffs are beyond my ken but that is not my understnding. The NI folks would have to pay UK tariffs in NI. If purchasing in the Republic they would have to pay EU tariffs. There would be no tariff free. However, the devil will be in the details anyway and these will be the make or break points.

And there is always VRT!
I read Denis Staunton's article in the IT. As you say, he states that NI people will pay the lesser of the EU tariff or the UK tariff. But GB folk do not pay tariffs on UK goods (by definition!) so that is a clear differentiation and also quite a serious threat to NI business which conducts 4 times as much East/West trade as North/South.
So I am assuming that by UK "tariff" he means the same as would be paid by any other UK citizen which is zero on UK originated goods and whatever it happens to be on overseas goods. Yes, on writing it down that must be what he means. Which means NI folk get their (UK manufatured) Jags tariff free. A Dublin Merc dealer will get her Mercs from Germany tariff free and and can transport them up the road to Belfast also tariff free. Surely even the DUP will not resist this best of both worlds. (The VRT is an Irish solution to this silly tariff free mullarkey, but not really relevant)
Incidentally Denis Staunton stood out from the crowd on Tuesday in suggesting that the game was not yet up on the negotiations. He has been vindicated today no matter what the outcome.
 

Early Riser

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629
Which means NI folk get their (UK manufatured) Jags tariff free. A Dublin Merc dealer will get her Mercs from Germany tariff free and and can transport them up the road to Belfast also tariff free. Surely even the DUP will not resist this best of both worlds.
I assume that in whatever trade agreement emerges after the transition period there will be equivalence on car tariffs, ie, UK manufactured cars are not going to get access to the EU market unless UK allows access to their market on equivalent tariff terms. If the UK wants their car industry to maintain access to the EU there will have to be tariff equivalence. I don't think there is a UK car industry without the EU.
 

Duke of Marmalade

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I assume that in whatever trade agreement emerges after the transition period there will be equivalence on car tariffs, ie, UK manufactured cars are not going to get access to the EU market unless UK allows access to their market on equivalent tariff terms. If the UK wants their car industry to maintain access to the EU there will have to be tariff equivalence. I don't think there is a UK car industry without the EU.
There may be a Free Trade Agreement and indeed that would answer my earlier point. But equivalence on tariffs is not the same thing. That Germans pay 10% on Jags whilst Brits pay 10% on Mercs does not alter the fact that Germans pay 0% on Mercs and Brits 0% on Jags and the good people of Ulster pay 0% on either :)
 

Early Riser

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There may be a Free Trade Agreement and indeed that would answer my earlier point. But equivalence on tariffs is not the same thing. That Germans pay 10% on Jags whilst Brits pay 10% on Mercs does not alter the fact that Germans pay 0% on Mercs and Brits 0% on Jags and the good people of Ulster pay 0% on either :)
Duke, I doubt that will emerge when we have the details, but I am sure that there will be some advantages accruing for NI - what precisely we will have to wait and see. Whether or not the technicalities can be worked out to reach agreement, I am sure that further details of this outline proposal will emerge in the coming days.

Incidentally, Tony Connelly on RTE is reporting that the talk he is hearing in Brussels is also along these lines. Apparently it was originally a Theresa May proposal but to apply to the whole of the UK.
 
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