More unrest & arrests at Corrib gas field

[Jock04]

At least 5 arrested & 2 Gardai taken to hospital after protestors stormed the gates at the construction site.

After spending most of my working life in the oil industry, part of it for Shell, I guess I could be accused of having a slanted view of this. But I just can't make up my mind about the protestors:

Ill-informed locals encouraged to cause trouble by militant groups from elsewhere?

Concerned citizens stating their case the only way they know how?

A bunch of chancers looking for a bundle of money to make them go away?

A bunch of gougers delighted to get the chance to cause trouble?

None of the above?

All of the above?


Personally, I think the locals have been fed a doomsday scenario by others with a bigger agenda - Shell seem to attract these groups, rightly or wrongly.
I can't help thinking the locals aren't helping their case by getting involved in fisticuffs with the guards & breaking HSE regulations themselves. Although some say any publicity is good publicity....
I'm well aware that this isn't happening in my own back yard and that I may well feel differently if it was. I still don't think the locals are portraying themselves in the best possible light.
So, what do others make of the situation?

 

[polaris]

From the Indo:

"A large group of Shell to Sea protestors was bussed into the area this morning to take part in a sit-down blockade of the site."

This suggests a bunch of non-local militants who went there specifically to stir things up.

 

[nelly]

I can't help thinking the locals aren't helping their case by getting involved in fisticuffs with the guards & breaking HSE regulations themselves.

just to clarify - HSE??
do you mean Health and Safety Authority by any chance? HSA...

As for your question. did i hear somewhere that the find will be huge, big bucks and the State should not have sold but rather gotten the oil themselves as it is property of the state.??? could have been drivel... for the life of me it does not hold my interest.

 

[Jock04]

Yep, HSA Nelly, - wrong vowel!

In global terms, the Corrib field is pretty small - although obviously still big enough to be worth developing. But Shell will have factored in many government concessions to make it a workable project, they could just as easily have left it as an asset on their books for a few years, or sold it on. The Gov. has at least secured a supply of gas without importing, for a number of years.

Now that it IS being developed though, I think the scare-mongering has got well out of perspective. It's hardly in Shells' interests to spend multi-millions on an unsafe asset. They know how to build refineries, and how to lay pipelines. Like I said before, Shell do attract a lot of flak from well-organised protest groups. I also wonder if there is some local resentment that perceived big-money jobs on an offshore platform have not come to fruition. Quite simply, if the field required, and justified on cost, an offshore manned facility, it would have one.

I think your last comment says a lot though - it's old news now, and probably only those close to it are still interested.

 

[GeneralZod]

The Irish Government recently [broken link removed] an increase in taxes on off-shore oil and gas revenues.

 

[ubiquitous]

Hi Jock

This subject was discussed on AAM many moons ago and I remember a number of contributors expressing very trenchant opinions in opposition to this development.

I think your point that the think the scare-mongering has got out of perspective is pretty well proven at this stage. Its also obvious that the protesters have little or no local support apart from a small coterie of diehards. The local politicians who backed the development all did very well in the recent election while the only "anti" TD, Jerry Cowley, lost his seat.

 

[Purple]

Good posts Jock, it should also be remembered that oil companies have spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the years looking for oil and gas off the west coast. I really don't think most people have any idea of the cost of drilling.

 

[Madangan]

I am from the general area i.e Erris and although I no longer live there it is home,always will be and as well as family and friends living there I cant imagine that anywhere else will ever be home for me. I live and love Dublin but home is home.

Erris is beatiful but as my neighbour often says "ya cant eat scenery", jobs of any kind are needed there that many longterm well paying jobs are or will be created by the corrib find.

Most erris people are divided on the subject and I am too. I think the OPs list of people involved is spot on, you have genuine and scared and concerned locals, shinners out to cause trouble and gain votes(failed miserably thankfully) assorted tree huggers and new age travellers who if they ever did a real days work would drop dead of the shock and some non local but genuine well informed people with real concerns.

I have been sitting on the fence for a very long time on the issue but now my gut tells me that the protesters may be right(very scientific I know ).
People are very concerned about the local water supply(for an area the size of louth) having been damaged by the groundworks alone due to the nature(peat bog) of the soil etc.. Mayo Co Council are definitely not on the side of anyone but shell and seem to do nothing about peoples concerns. The only media outlet which raised this was channel 4 and no irish media appears interested. This I know is not about the pipeline its safety etc... but more and more I am worried that the people of erris who depend quite a lot on tourism may well end up being sacrificed for the greater economic good of the country...not just the people near the pipelines. Problem is erris is and has alawys been one of the poorest and most remote and infrastructurally most underdeveloped parts of the country so if fishing agriculture and tourism is endangered it is serious.

I am not a nimby by nature but part of the problem is that it appears to many in/from erris that the people whose function it is to protect the people e.g the co.council,the planning authorities EPA and the government are all hell bent on helping shell regardless of the cost. If erris or indeed ireland as a whole was going to benefit in some meaningful long lasting way then it might be worth the sacrifice of our lakes and bays and the coast generally but Shell will benefit not erris and not ireland. Its not all that well known but more and more people at home are buying bottled water all the time rather than drink even boiled tap water( due to concerns about elevated mineral levels in the water(with possible links among other things to alzheimers). If of course erris was in Galway that would be on the tv day in day out.

However my biggest issue with many of the protestors is that some are so unsavoury themselves that they do far more harm to the cause than good. Equally there are a lot of Erris people in favour of the pipelines for the security and construction jobs in the initial stages etc.. A member of my own family works there at the moment.

Anyway this is just one erris persions view for what its worth.

 

[ludermor]

Like Madagan i am from the area but living in dublin. I have close ties to the area and have mixed views as to the development. I have stated here before my views so wont go through them again. I would have lots of friends on boths sides of the argument and i know a lot of outsiders woring on the plant through my work.The protest today was well known all week and it was known that there would be trouble. It is the blow in who cause most of the trouble but i have to sa that the attitude of some of the local protesters is sickening. Most of what happens doesnt even make the local papers any more the intimidation of the workers is continious and getting worse. Days like this does there cause no good whatsoever

 

[RainyDay]

it should also be remembered that oil companies have spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the years looking for oil and gas off the west coast. I really don't think most people have any idea of the cost of drilling.

What's the chances that Shell will share their billions with the other oil companies who spent hundreds of millions exploring?

I wonder why there is no difficulty putting 200 gardai on site to act as private security for Shell in Mayo when many inner-city communities are crying out for more gardai on the streets.

 

[ludermor]

there is not 200 guards there on a permanent basis, there is a far smaller crew there to deal with the daily distrubance on public roads where people are being stopped going to work.
Have you an issue with guards been deployed to the streets of dublin for the Love Ulster march? Reinforcements are called in when 'day of action' are going to happen, the protesters are fairly vocal as to what will happen on these days of action.

 

[Purple]

What's the chances that Shell will share their billions with the other oil companies who spent hundreds of millions exploring?

I don't think there's much chance of this happening but if any of the other oil companies who were looking found oil or gas I don't think they would share it either. What's your point?

I wonder why there is no difficulty putting 200 gardai on site to act as private security for Shell in Mayo when many inner-city communities are crying out for more gardai on the streets.

I agree that it's a disgrace that police resources are being tied up there and not used where they could help more. I don't see how they could not be diploid there though as public order is their remit.

I am no fan of Shell as a corporation and am well aware of how they behaved in Nigeria but this dispute should be seen in a local context.

 

[RainyDay]

My point about 'sharing' was in response to your point about the millions spent on exploration. So really, it's a case of 'whats your point?'.

My point about Garda resources was to highlight the fact that people can be shot in Moyross on a regular basis, and the Gardai are still left without the resources to control that situation, but when there is a hint of a huge oil company coming under siege, there seems to be no problem with resources. A cynic might come to the conclusion that Shell's profits are more important than human life down in the Dept of Justice.

 

[Purple]

My point about 'sharing' was in response to your point about the millions spent on exploration. So really, it's a case of 'whats your point?'.

My point is that because oil companies have to spend upwards of one million dollars a day just to have an exploration rig at sea and there is a low chance of getting a return the rewards have to be high. The fact that the oil or gas is not shared between all the oil companies only increases the risks. I still don't know what point you were making with your comments about sharing. If oil companies knew that they would get a share of oil or gas found by other companies none of them would bother drilling 10" diameter holes three miles deep through sea bed a mile under water.

My point about Garda resources was to highlight the fact that people can be shot in Moyross on a regular basis, and the Gardai are still left without the resources to control that situation, but when there is a hint of a huge oil company coming under siege, there seems to be no problem with resources. A cynic might come to the conclusion that Shell's profits are more important than human life down in the Dept of Justice.

Only a cynic that was either a simpleton or choose to ignore the complexities of the situation in Moyross. I fully accept that more should be done to help Moyross and other areas that suffer high levels of social deprivation (even if that means higher taxes etc) but there is no link between Mayross and the Shell to Sea protests.

 

[RainyDay]

My point is that because oil companies have to spend upwards of one million dollars a day just to have an exploration rig at sea and there is a low chance of getting a return the rewards have to be high. The fact that the oil or gas is not shared between all the oil companies only increases the risks.

Nothing I'd disagree with there, though I'm still struggling to see the relevance of this to the Corrib unrest discussion. If there is some implication for the unrest, you might want to spell this out.

Only a cynic that was either a simpleton or choose to ignore the complexities of the situation in Moyross. I fully accept that more should be done to help Moyross and other areas that suffer high levels of social deprivation (even if that means higher taxes etc) but there is no link between Mayross and the Shell to Sea protests.

You seem to have missed my point. I never said or implied that additional Gardai would completely resolve the Moyross situation. Moyross is just one example of the many, many better things that the Gardai could be doing, other than providing private security for Shell. When Gardai attend at Landsdowne Road or Croker, the organising body shells out a portion of the costs incurred by the state. How much has Shell paid out? [Hint: Zero]

 

[Purple]

Nothing I'd disagree with there, though I'm still struggling to see the relevance of this to the Corrib unrest discussion. If there is some implication for the unrest, you might want to spell this out.

It has nothing to do with Corrib but it has a lot to do with the Red Herring of how Shell are ripping off the people of Ireland that is thrown in when the Corrib gas field is discussed. It may well be true but it has nothing to do with the safety concerns that are supposed to be at issue in Mayo.

You seem to have missed my point. I never said or implied that additional Gardai would completely resolve the Moyross situation. Moyross is just one example of the many, many better things that the Gardai could be doing, other than providing private security for Shell. When Gardai attend at Landsdowne Road or Croker, the organising body shells out a portion of the costs incurred by the state. How much has Shell paid out? [Hint: Zero]

I am no fan of oil companies, the French ones being the worst by a mile when it comes to abuse of human rights and supporting despots Burma, Rwanda etc) but at Landsdown road the IRFU, FIA, concert promoter etc wants the people there (and make money from each one), Shell don't. I do not see any reason why a person or corporation should have to pay the policing costs for legal and illegal protest against them. Imagine the precedent that would set? Pro-life groups could put pro-choice groups out of business simply by protesting against them, and vice versa.

 

[room305]

Moyross is just one example of the many, many better things that the Gardai could be doing, other than providing private security for Shell.

A cynic might come to the conclusion that Shell's profits are more important than human life down in the Dept of Justice.

I wonder why there is no difficulty putting 200 gardai on site to act as private security for Shell in Mayo when many inner-city communities are crying out for more gardai on the streets.

Even if they can well afford it, would you really be happy if Shell told the Gardai to stay away and hired their own private security force to handle the protests?

 

[jhegarty]

You seem to have missed my point. I never said or implied that additional Gardai would completely resolve the Moyross situation. Moyross is just one example of the many, many better things that the Gardai could be doing, other than providing private security for Shell. When Gardai attend at Landsdowne Road or Croker, the organising body shells out a portion of the costs incurred by the state. How much has Shell paid out? [Hint: Zero]

You get planning permission to build a house. I objected but my objection was rejected.

You start building your house but I decided to do illegal things to stop the builders...


How much should you have to pay to get me arrested ?

 

[RainyDay]

at Landsdown road the IRFU, FIA, concert promoter etc wants the people there (and make money from each one), Shell don't. I do not see any reason why a person or corporation should have to pay the policing costs for legal and illegal protest against them. Imagine the precedent that would set? Pro-life groups could put pro-choice groups out of business simply by protesting against them, and vice versa.

While it is obvious that Shell don't want the people there, they are nevertheless a commercial entity. Their sole objective in this project is to make money. It is a commercial venture, not a social movement or a protest.

You get planning permission to build a house. I objected but my objection was rejected.

You start building your house but I decided to do illegal things to stop the builders...


How much should you have to pay to get me arrested ?

Is your house full of dynamite or other highly explosive substances?

Even if they can well afford it, would you really be happy if Shell told the Gardai to stay away and hired their own private security force to handle the protests?

I'd be really happy if Shell reimbursed the State for the costs of the resources applied to help them make more money.

 

[room305]

While it is obvious that Shell don't want the people there, they are nevertheless a commercial entity. Their sole objective in this project is to make money. It is a commercial venture, not a social movement or a protest.

How sinful. God forbid the state should extend protection to those pursuing a profit-driven agenda.

I'd be really happy if Shell reimbursed the State for the costs of the resources applied to help them make more money.

The state is not supplying Shell with resources to "help make them more money" as you put it, but to allow a legal and legitimate business to continue to operate. If protestors took umbrage with a business you owned for some reason or other, you would expect the same courtesy to be extended to you.

Following your logic, almost any large business could run its smaller competitors out of business by paying protestors to stir up trouble and have the state send out a bill.