More reasons for mandatory sentencing

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censuspro

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Within one week we had the following sentences handed down:

Former county councillor receives 2 year suspended sentencing for the sexual assault of a 16 yo in a hotel room. i.e. no prison time.

[broken link removed]

Mother murders her 3yo child resulting in 70 seperate injuries and the childs death a few days later gets 4 years.

[broken link removed]


Sean Keogh get's 4 years for kicking Pawel Kalite in the head while he lay dying on the ground. Despite the fact that Keogh had 75 priors and was out on bail when he committed the offence.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0519/drimnagh.html

Its obvious that Irish judges are incapable for handing down harsh prison sentences. When will we start to protect Irish citizens by inroducing mandatory sentencing? Repeat and serious offenders belong in prison where they are not a threat to society.
 
censuspro said:
... Mother murders her 3yo child ...
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Factually incorrect - "... A charge of manslaughter was withdrawn by the State ..." and the mother plead guilty to " ... the wilful ill-treatment of her daughter ..." according to the report you linked to; the judge sentenced accordingly.
 
The outcome is the same. Dead baby and a lenient sentence.

It still highlights the need for mandatory sentencing.
 
censuspro said:
... It still highlights the need for mandatory sentencing.
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Mandatory sentencing in line with what - the crime the accused is found guilty of or what you imagine they should have been charged with in the first place?
 
In line with beating a baby to death.

Does anyone know why was the manslaughter charge withdrawn?
 
mathepac said:
Mandatory sentencing in line with what - the crime the accused is found guilty of or what you imagine they should have been charged with in the first place?
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I've also given other examples of lenient sentences being handed down for violent crimes and repeat offenders yet it appears that the only people who are against mandatory sentencing are those in the legal profession.
 
I'm always amused when having this discussion with certain people who insist that the way to prevent these crimes is through preventative measures such as education and addressing the social issues involved. All pretty wishy-washy to me and not easily measured. I think a "serious" list of offences should be drawn up with mandatory sentencing of life (not 20 years, but the actual remainder of the criminal's life). I think the message would get through to these people fairly quickly if a few of their contemporaries went down...call it education if you will
 
Firefly said:
I'm always amused when having this discussion with certain people who insist that the way to prevent these crimes is through preventative measures such as education and addressing the social issues involved. All pretty wishy-washy to me and not easily measured. I think a "serious" list of offences should be drawn up with mandatory sentencing of life (not 20 years, but the actual remainder of the criminal's life). I think the message would get through to these people fairly quickly if a few of their contemporaries went down...call it education if you will
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Would it though? Not as if the death penalty has stopped people murdering and raping.

I am all for tougher sentances and the bail laws are a joke but we are not going to solve the problem by building bigger jails and filling them with people for the rest of their living days.

Have no idea what the solution is though.......
 
Anyone who believes the judiciary in this country is there to implement the Law is fooling themselves. Real criminals get the softly softly approach as you can guarantee they'll keep helping to perpetuate the corrupt system we have in place. More crime = maintenance of the status quo. Jobs for Judges, Barristers, Solicitors, Gardaí, career politicians, Social workers, Prison Officers etc etc.
Its not profitable to rehabilitate or to try nip problems in the bud.
 
redbhoy said:
Anyone who believes the judiciary in this country is there to implement the Law is fooling themselves. Real criminals get the softly softly approach as you can guarantee they'll keep helping to perpetuate the corrupt system we have in place. More crime = maintenance of the status quo. Jobs for Judges, Barristers, Solicitors, Gardaí, career politicians, Social workers, Prison Officers etc etc.
Its not profitable to rehabilitate or to try nip problems in the bud.
Click to expand...

Seriously? :rolleyes:
 
I've said it before but I strongly believe that all crime should be punished. That would be a start.

I don't see why all things being roughly equal, judges cannot then agree on realistic mandatory minimum sentences, and adhere to them.
 
Caveat said:
I've said it before but I strongly believe that all crime should be punished. That would be a start.

I don't see why all things being roughly equal, judges cannot then agree on realistic mandatory minimum sentences, and adhere to them.
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Mitigating circumstances?

( Sure hes from a good family so shouldnt do the same time as a workign class boy who cimmitted the same crime but couldnt afford the D4 barrister.)
 
We have mandatory sentencing for a number of crimes where the judge can only give a lesser sentence in exceptional circumstances. Unfortunately the judges have shown their contempt for the people who, through the Dail, have made these laws by ignoring mandatory sentences in the majority of cases. Michael McDowell, when minister for Justice, pointed this out and was greeted by a wall of self-righteous bluster from the judges who took umbrage at anyone questioning them.
Details
 
Sunny said:
Would it though? Not as if the death penalty has stopped people murdering and raping.
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Prison is where we send people who murder and rape, prison sentences are not there to guage crime rates? If someone murders or rapes they belong in prison where they can't do it again.
 
Sunny said:
... Have no idea what the solution is though.......
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What about a new "Celebrity Kill a Criminal" phone-in TV show?

Each week a 5 or 6 criminals (in less enlightened times these might have been referred to as "suspects", "accused persons" or "defendants") appear on the show and a panel of experts presents the evidence against them. This panel of experts could be drawn from the editorial or speaking staff (most of them can't write so they have to speak and / or appear on the telly or radio) of the most illustrious organs of the 4th estate. I'd suggest limiting this to the staff of those publications renowned for their honesty, decency, accuracy, fairness, absence of biased hysterical xenophobic headlines and with a demonstrable focus on public-spiritedness, for example The "Oirish" Daily Mail / Male of a Sunday, The Sun, The Star, The Sindo, Sunday's Worst, NOTW.

Nominations for the show could be published (on page 2 to try to guarantee they are seen) and voted on via nomination phone-ins / txts / tweets. The evidence of criminality presented on the show will consist of unedited newspaper articles, headlines, pictures, ramblings from internet blogs, twitterings, radio phone-in programmes and other unsubstantiated nonsense. Rebuttal evidence will be presented solely by the criminals and a lack of ability to communicate in semi-literate, almost-understandable English like the "meeja types" will be used as additional evidence of criminality.

After each show the drones, sorry I meant the viewing public, phone the premium lines advertised and vote for :

  • Criminal of the Week
  • Death Method of the Week
  • Venue of the Week.
The Criminal of the Week will then be killed using the Death Method of the Week at the Venue of the Week with the switch / injection / trigger / rope being activated by the winning drone voter, selected "randomly" (yeah, right).

The government can dispose of the Gardai, the judiciary, prisons, criminal lawyers, prison officers, probation officers and make huge revenues from the phone-lines and by selling tickets to events at the Venue of the Week.
 
censuspro said:
Prison is where we send people who murder and rape, why do people compare prison sentences with crime rates? If someone murders or rapes they belong in prison where they can't do it again.
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I was replying to someone who said that tougher sentences would lead to lower crime rates. There is no evidence of that.

Britain tried getting tough with mandatory sentencing and taking away judges descretion a few years ago. They had to reverse that within a couple of years due to the amount of life sentences given and prison overcrowding.
 
mathepac said:
What about a new "Celebrity Kill a Criminal" phone-in TV show?

Each week a 5 or 6 criminals (in less enlightened times these might have been referred to as "suspects", "accused persons" or "defendants") appear on the show and a panel of experts presents the evidence against them. This panel of experts could be drawn from the editorial or speaking staff (most of them can't write so they have to speak and / or appear on the telly or radio) of the most illustrious organs of the 4th estate. I'd suggest limiting this to the staff of those publications renowned for their honesty, decency, accuracy, fairness, absence of biased hysterical xenophobic headlines and with a demonstrable focus on public-spiritedness, for example The "Oirish" Daily Mail / Male of a Sunday, The Sun, The Star, The Sindo, Sunday's Worst, NOTW.

Nominations for the show could be published (on page 2 to try to guarantee they are seen) and voted on via nomination phone-ins / txts / tweets. The evidence of criminality presented on the show will consist of unedited newspaper articles, headlines, pictures, ramblings from internet blogs, twitterings, radio phone-in programmes and other unsubstantiated nonsense. Rebuttal evidence will be presented solely by the criminals and a lack of ability to communicate in semi-literate, almost-understandable English like the "meeja types" will be used as additional evidence of criminality.

After each show the drones, sorry I meant the viewing public, phone the premium lines advertised and vote for :

  • Criminal of the Week
  • Death Method of the Week
  • Venue of the Week.
The Criminal of the Week will then be killed using the Death Method of the Week at the Venue of the Week with the switch / injection / trigger / rope being activated by the winning drone voter, selected "randomly" (yeah, right).

The government can dispose of the Gardai, the judiciary, prisons, criminal lawyers, prison officers, probation officers and make huge revenues from the phone-lines and by selling tickets to events at the Venue of the Week.
Click to expand...

You have working on that idea for awhile!
 
mathepac said:
What about a new "Celebrity Kill a Criminal" phone-in TV show?

Each week a 5 or 6 criminals (in less enlightened times these might have been referred to as "suspects", "accused persons" or "defendants") appear on the show and a panel of experts presents the evidence against them. This panel of experts could be drawn from the editorial or speaking staff (most of them can't write so they have to speak and / or appear on the telly or radio) of the most illustrious organs of the 4th estate. I'd suggest limiting this to the staff of those publications renowned for their honesty, decency, accuracy, fairness, absence of biased hysterical xenophobic headlines and with a demonstrable focus on public-spiritedness, for example The "Oirish" Daily Mail / Male of a Sunday, The Sun, The Star, The Sindo, Sunday's Worst, NOTW.

Nominations for the show could be published (on page 2 to try to guarantee they are seen) and voted on via nomination phone-ins / txts / tweets. The evidence of criminality presented on the show will consist of unedited newspaper articles, headlines, pictures, ramblings from internet blogs, twitterings, radio phone-in programmes and other unsubstantiated nonsense. Rebuttal evidence will be presented solely by the criminals and a lack of ability to communicate in semi-literate, almost-understandable English like the "meeja types" will be used as additional evidence of criminality.

After each show the drones, sorry I meant the viewing public, phone the premium lines advertised and vote for :

  • Criminal of the Week
  • Death Method of the Week
  • Venue of the Week.
The Criminal of the Week will then be killed using the Death Method of the Week at the Venue of the Week with the switch / injection / trigger / rope being activated by the winning drone voter, selected "randomly" (yeah, right).

The government can dispose of the Gardai, the judiciary, prisons, criminal lawyers, prison officers, probation officers and make huge revenues from the phone-lines and by selling tickets to events at the Venue of the Week.
Click to expand...

Or we could just continue with the current system where people who read the Irish Times can give lenient prison sentences to violent criminals who beat their 3 yo children to death, sexually assault children and kick a dying man in the head while out on bail for 75 priors. God forbid we send them to prison for any considerable lenght of time.
 
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