"When you go whitewater rafting in Canada . . . I don't know if you've read this? I've said it a lot.
"Anyway, when you get into the dinghy, you put on the lifejacket and helmet. And the last thing you hear the guy say before he pushes you off is that, if you fall out, you've got to become an active participant in your own rescue. Nobody's going to do it for you - you've got to fight."
What was whitewater rafting like?
"I've never done it, never did it," he replies, unruffled.