Money missing in BOI

Hi All,

I am putting this post up on behalf of my mother. Approx a year ago my mother noticed that her BOI account was €300 short. She requested a statement and noticed that the €300.00 had been taken out at an ATM machine over the north side of dublin. Knowing that she had not actualy been over that side of Dublin for some time she knew she had not taken the money out of the machine.

She did recall some time before this that her card caught in a ATM machine before coming out as she passed remark to my fater on this as you know how word spreads from one person to another and she had heard before that your card can easialie be copied when it catches like that.

She contacted BOI who informed her that because the ATM machine was one inside a store that they did not run them and they could not deal with it even though the money had been taken from her BOI account.

She would still like to try and sort this in some way.
Does anyone have any idea how one would go about trying to get there money back?

Thanks
Aishling

Are you saying that her card got stuck in an ATM and she left it there or that she suspected that it was being skimmed by the machine? Did she put her complaint in writing to the bank? If she does this and gets no satisfactory response then she could escalate the complaint by contacting IFSRA.

The card was stuck in the machine but then came out and she said that she heard that happens when your card is being skimmed. then shortly after this she noticed €300.00 gone from her account. She contacted BOI in Tallaght which if anyone has any dealings with this branch its disgracefull in everway and widly known for it. Basicly the staff member she was speaking to brushed her off told her that it was nothing to do with BOI and it would probably be more hassell then it is worth trying to get the money back or even answers to how the money was taken!

She needs to put her complaint in writing but she would need some hard evidence to support her case that she was scammed out of the money. Just because there was a delay in the card coming out of the ATM is hardly strong evidence. This often happens even when nothing untoward is going on.

I understand that but €300.00 has gone missing so onw can only put 2 and 2 together on this. She has checked back and it was taken from an ATM machine in North Dublin were she had not been. I will tell her to put something together in writhing in regards to it and contact BOI again.

To be honest, if all she has to go on is suspicion of the delay in her card being returned and some anecdotal reports of dodgy transactions at the ATM or bank branch in question then I personally don't reckon that she has that strong a case. However no harm in reporting the issue in writing if she believes that she was diddled.

ASH83,

If your mother wants to take it further she needs to put her concern, that a fraudulent transaction has occurred on her account, in writing to her Bank Manager and also the Fraud Office of An Garda Siochana. She needs to state that a sum of €300 was withdrawn from her account on "x" date and that she did not carry out or authorise this withdrawal.

However, you say that this happened over a year ago ? Because of the length of time between the alleged fraud and its reporting there may be very little either the Bank or the Gardai can do. They will both ask why it took so long to report the transaction.

You also say that her card seemed to stick for a second or two in an "Easycash" in-store ATM and that she now suspects her card has been skimmed.

I think that this is unlikely for two reasons:

1. ATM skimmers / scammers usually avoid placing skimming devices on in-store ATMs because it is difficult to do unnoticed because of the amount of personnel and shoppers in and out of a shop. Also, in-store ATM's are usually well lit making it difficult to place the skimming device in the card reader without being noticed.

2. ATM scammers usually will try and "max out" a skimmed card for as long as possible for as much as possible until the card is cancelled. The usual pattern, once a card is skimmed, is to see the maximum withdrawal (eg €500)before midnight and another just after midnight. The scammers will keep on making withdrawals until such time as the card is cancelled. This doesn't seem to have happened in your mothers case


Therefore, in my opinion, it is unlikely (though technically not impossible) that your mothers ATM card has been compromised.

Is it possible that your mother is just mistaken ? Does she, or has she, ever visited the ATM on the North Side where the withdrawal took place ? Does she have a joint account where the additional holders could have withdrawn the money ? (Please don't take offence at these questions, I am only pre-empting what the bank and the Gardai will ask)

No offence taken.

She hadnt been over the north side of sublin and she used the ATM machin outside the BOI in tallaght Village when i caught it wasnt an in-store atm machine she used but the €300.00 was with drawn froma in-store ATM machine which is why when she did report it to BOI the dismissed it as they do not own thoses in-store machines there owned by an out side company.
She dosent nessaceraly put this down to her card being skimmed but she has never used her ATM card in the machine which the €300.00 had been taken out of. I am unaware if this was all that was in her account at the time or not. But €300.00 has gone and there is a transaction that she never made withdrawing that amount. Obvoiusly she would love to get her money back but to be honest i think she is more concerned about how €300.00 has gone from her account and that BOI are pretty much not helping explain how or why! €300 is alot of money jusy to go missing.

Can I ask how you confirmed it was an in-store ATM that the money was taken from? Was it from the statement ? If it is a BoI account then the transaction reference should say something like "PASS 15JUN UBL 98xxxx".

If the reference for the withdrawal says "UBL" in it then it was an easycash machine - Ulster Bank run the ATM system for these I think so you might need to contact Ulster Bank customer service. Alternatively contact Easycash on 01-620-9890 and ask them what their policy on tracing unauthorised or contested transactions.

Still would be interested to know how you found out it was an in-store ATM

Apart from all the advice and information above I don't think your mother has much chance at this stage. You say this happened a year ago, so getting any hard or fast information about the events surrounding it is going to be very hard.

The bank might refund the money in the interests of keeping the customer happy (they did this for me many, many years ago when I stupidly left my card in the machine after paying a bill or getting a balance printed) but I would honestly doubt it very much.

If you try to pursue this with the owner of the ATM that dispensed the money you will more than likely have to prove to them that it wasn't your mother who took the cash out. I'm afraid that telling them she never visits that area will just not wash with them. According to their records they have the card and the pin in the same place at the same time and that makes an authorised transaction.

z

i myself have used an in-store atm machine. everytime i use those machines i simlpy insert the card then remove it within seconds. after that i conduct my transaction. the in-store atm machine doesn't seem to take the card in fully like some branch atm machines do... i wonder if this is what your mother is talking about? as for the money going missing... it would have been better to cotact IFSRA a lot sooner than now. it's a sad situation. best of luck...

Ash83,

Not clear why your mother has appeared to have left this for a year before querying, probably doesn't help the situation, however....... from experience, the actual cause is one of the following..........

a) the person took out the money themselves, but doesn't recall doing so immediately (doesn't appear to be the case in here, as the money was taken out of a machine your mother never attended

b) card was skimmed, elsewhere and used here (possibility)

c) PIN was with card (yes it happens frequently, despite the warnings re same) and was used by either a fraudster or would you believe often a family member - don't panic I'm not accusing anyone in your family. I'll assume the PIN wasn't with the card, therefore we are really left with option b).

Did you get to ascertain if there was a security camera on the ATM that was used for the withdrawal? If so, they should be able to tie down who used your mothers card (or at worst, at least prove it wasn't her). The time delay might be an issue here at this stage.

My own approach when this issue arises, is to see how long the customer has been banking with us (I work on the basis if the customer has been banking with us a long time they are unlikley to 'do' us for the sake of E2/300, and in the long run the goodwill generated pays for itself), to meet with them to discuss, and more often than not you will realise the customer is genuine, and I'll take the loss and make the refund. Also important to cancel the existing card (in case it has been skimmed, and re-issue a new (not replacement one)).

Perhaps you've done/discussed all of the above with your bank, if you have and are still not happy, you should either contact their Customer Care Centre or the Ombudsman to see if same can be resolved. If you haven't done/discussed the above, I think it would be worth a try.

Best of luck...........

BM

Hi BM,

Thank you for your reply will will note all and pass it onto my mam.

She did contact the bank when she noticed the money gone, requested bank statements ect and when she contacted the branch again to let them know what had prob happened she was told that there was nothing they could do because the €300 that had gone missing was taken from an instore machine and they are not owned by the banks them selfs.

When she noticed her card getting cause in a machine it was not an instore machin but one on the outside of her branch.

I think at this stage she has accepted that she will probably never see the money again but it does leave her worried as to how the money was taken.
No one in the family would have access to her pin details.

She has been a very good customer with BOI for years, so im a little suprised at there lack of help on the situation.

I think she will just have to put this down to unfourtunet tidings.

Thanks to everyone for the replys.
Ash