Ministerial interference with An Bord Pleanala?

I applied for and was granted PP for a 2 storey extension in spite of an objection from a neighbour. As is his perogative he appealed to ABP and a decision is imminent. Whilst enquiring today I learned that a submission on the appeal was made in the week of the election - presumably not in my favour.

My understanding was that after the notice of appeal parties had 28 days for submissions (including myself). Now I find that the Minister has made a submission without any reference to myself almost 3 months after that deadline?

I believe this to be totally immoral but apart from that is it legal?

Roy

I'm not even sure that a third party can lodge an appeal unless they have also made a submission to the relevant planning authority in the first place.

If the minister didn't make an submission on your original application then I don't see how then can make a submission to ABP.

see here -

[broken link removed]

Thank you Marathon Man, that's very much appreciated. I wait with bated breadth but if the decision is rejected I will be persuing every avenue and this link is very useful.

Many thanks
Roy

onekeano said:

Thank you Marathon Man, that's very much appreciated. I wait with bated breadth but if the decision is rejected I will be persuing every avenue and this link is very useful.

Many thanks
Roy

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Would it not be better to enquire now rather than wait for the rejection?

SueEllen,

The decision was made yesterday, they won't tell you the result until the day after it is posted to all the parties ie. tomorrow. That's how I found out about the Ministers involvement because ABP told me I would have to wait until "both 3rd parties" had been advised. I explained only 1 person had made an appeal and then I was told that the Minister had made a submission without even discussing the situation with me (I'm only a constituent of course - like my neighbour).

Roy

I believe an observer can lodge a submission in the case of a bord pleanala appeal...i don't think the same time constraints apply to observers which apply to appellants.

Yes, but the link kindly provided by Marathon Man seems to indicate to me that the Ministers observation was still out of order see below:

"Where an appeal has already been made, another person can become an “observer” and make submissions or observations on the appeal...The time limit for such submissions or observations is four weeks from the receipt of the appeal by the Board ... So, if an appeal is received on Wednesday 2nd of a month, the last day for receipt of submissions or observations on the appeal by an “observer” is Tuesday 29th of the same month."

In my case the appeal was submitted in February and the Minister's observation was made the week of the General Election - May 18th to be precise.

Roy

So have you raised the question of the timing of the Minister's observation with An Bord Pleanala?

Chances are that the an Bord Pleanala inspector will just disregard this observation then in the resulting report due out.

bb12 said:

Chances are that the an Bord Pleanala inspector will just disregard this observation then in the resulting report due out.

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It wouldn't be possible that a Minister would be well aware of the time scales and is attempting to play both sides by submitting a late observation, would it?

To Constituent A: Aw sure I did me best for ya
To Constituent B: Aw sure I didn't want that one to go through anyway

RainyDay said:

It wouldn't be possible that a Minister would be well aware of the time scales and is attempting to play both sides by submitting a late observation, would it?

To Constituent A: Aw sure I did me best for ya
To Constituent B: Aw sure I didn't want that one to go through anyway

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Given the Minister in question and the fact that it was the week of the election I doubt it. I hope to get access to more information over the next few days and I'll update you.

Roy

In spite of the submission by the Minister the appeal was rejected and my PP granted subject to 2 conditions. The first was a standard condition which I have no problem with. The second is more puzzling because it seems to move significantly away from the recommendation of ABPs Inspectors recommendation.

It is in relation to a window in an attic and the Inspector states the following: "The bottom part of the proposed attic window in the gable shall be excluded and the window shall have a maximum height of 1 m. Reason: In the interest of residential amenity. "

However the Board direction for some reason states "The proposed extension shall be modified to incorporate a hipped roof design in lieu of the proposed gable.
Reason: To minimise the impact on the amenity of adjoining residential property."

My question is, if I were to reduce the window size in line with the Inspectors proposal, or indeed if I were to exclude that window altogether, could I retain the original design whilst seeking retention on the basis that I complied with the Inspectors requirements and reduced / eliminated the "impact on the amenity of adjoining residential property."

Any advice appreiciated

Thanks
Roy

Did you get clarify the An Bord regarding the timing of the Minister's submission and whether it was accepted?

RainyDay said:

Did you get clarify the An Bord regarding the timing of the Minister's submission and whether it was accepted?

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No, because they won't give you access to that information until 3 days have elapsed since the decision..... so next week................

Roy

PS. I have managed to speak with the Minister in question and his explanation reflects his reputation ..... it was a 45 minute conversation which centered around "I didn't write it so I don't know what was in it".

as far as i know, a minister can make a submission if the proposed development comes under his remit as minister..... ie a marine development can be objected to by the minister for the marine etc...

if he is submitting as a public member he has to comply with the normal rules...

if the submission is made outside of the time allowed to recieve submissions... the submission is stil kept on file but cannot be used to influence the bord officers report...... because the usual situation is for you to be allowed to respond to submissions that are recieved... in this case you obviously havent.......

i would also find it extremly worring that a minister does not know what is leaving his ministerial office on his official letterheaded paper......

sydthebeat said:

if he is submitting as a public member he has to comply with the normal rules...

if the submission is made outside of the time allowed to recieve submissions... the submission is stil kept on file but cannot be used to influence the bord officers report...... because the usual situation is for you to be allowed to respond to submissions that are recieved... in this case you obviously havent.......

i would also find it extremly worring that a minister does not know what is leaving his ministerial office on his official letterheaded paper......

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He told me we do this all the time as Public Representatives..."all we are doing is passing on the infomation... it doesn't hold any weight!" he made the comment about "having no idea what was in my submission" on at least six occassions during our meeting. I specifically ask him if the words "I support the objection" were contacined in his submission and he reiterated "I have no idea what it said".

Looks like this is what we call democracy......

Roy