Micheál Martin wants 250,000 Irish speakers by 2030

If you ask most people if they think that teaching children to speak Irish (or any other language) is a good idea, most will say yes.

But the question that should be asked is if people think that teaching children to speak Irish, instead of teaching them science, is a good idea, how many would say yes?

But this is exactly the situation we are currently in. The teaching of Irish in primary school IS at the expense of teaching science, which gets very little time in the primary school timetable in comparison with most developed countries.

And people wonder why multinationals complain about poor standards in science and mathematics.

DB74 said:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...d-to-extinction-of-irish-language-492560.html

I would prefer to see useful languages taught in our primary schools

eg

French
German
Chinese

The Irish language is a waste of time and money in this country

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Because money is the be all and end all?? Maybe some people are proud of their heritage and think it should be given as much resources as possible?

redbhoy said:

Because money is the be all and end all?? Maybe some people are proud of their heritage and think it should be given as much resources as possible?

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Money IS the be-all-and-end-all in this country at the moment

DB74 said:

Money IS the be-all-and-end-all in this country at the moment

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I wish you well in Life so.

redbhoy said:

I wish you well in Life so.

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Thanks and go n'éirí an t-ádh leat (I think!)

DB74 said:

Thanks and go n'éirí an t-ádh leat (I think!)

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Cheap tú go maith
I have a little Irish and Id rather see more resources pouring into the Irish Language than it going into a banking black hole.

redbhoy said:

Maybe some people are proud of their heritage and think it should be given as much resources as possible?

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It's the "as possible" bit that's critical. It's harder to justify spending money on protecting the language when other more critical services are being neglected for want of funding.

truthseeker said:

Do kids not do a variety of subjects (at leaving cert level), some of which have no impact on getting a job? For example, if you did Physics and Home Economics you could end up in a science lab and never use the Home Ec for the job - or end up in a restaurant and never use the Physics for the job?

Why couldnt Irish be optional at Leaving Cert level - such as the above examples? That way if a kid has shown interest in it they can continue to do it - also an overhaul to how it is taught is needed.

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Yes , they have to make choices for their subjects and can do extra ones if they choose to do so at the moment thats the way it is.

You could also do history and never use it,geography,home ec,religion,in fact almost all subjects you may never use,but this as you know is not the reason for doing them..

I agree that if a kid shows an interest they should have a choice of continuing in it.But this is not necessarily a choice.

For example my niece is brilliant at Art, the school she goes to gives them options and they pick say three of those,she wasn't picked to do art!!

I understand that in Italy a kid who is about 13/14 can decide what type of higher school to go to,ie one that leans a particular way,say towards the arts or business or sports,which is probably a good idea.

Also I know in Scotland that having finished our junior cert equivalent the kids there have to concentrate only on maybe four subjects,of their choosing.

So I agree based on how badly its being taught that it should not be compulsory, but that is a teaching issue,and what happens if we drop Irish,what subject is next??

thedaras said:

Yes , they have to make choices for their subjects and can do extra ones if they choose to do so at the moment thats the way it is.

You could also do history and never use it,geography,home ec,religion,in fact almost all subjects you may never use,but this as you know is not the reason for doing them..

I agree that if a kid shows an interest they should have a choice of continuing in it.But this is not necessarily a choice.

For example my niece is brilliant at Art, the school she goes to gives them options and they pick say three of those,she wasn't picked to do art!!

I understand that in Italy a kid who is about 13/14 can decide what type of higher school to go to,ie one that leans a particular way,say towards the arts or business or sports,which is probably a good idea.

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Can I assume so, that most Italian children go to school in Pisa?

Staples said:

Any Government overseeing an educational system that imposes the teaching of Irish over say French, German or Chinese is failing its citizens.

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I'm always amazed that the Irish education system doesn't see fit to promote Spanish much more in schools. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why French and German seem to be the most commonly taught languages in schools. It seems daft to me.

Spanish is the 3rd most widely spoken language in the world. German is 10th and French is 14th!

Sunny said:

Yeah, I agree with the other posters. I have no problem with increasing the number of Irish speakers. I dont see it as a waste of time. I speak three languages but consider it a disgrace that I can't speak Irish but the love of the language was beaten out of me in school and can't face going back to it!

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On the flip side of that, Sunny, it was beaten into us in secondary school. I always loved the language but my worst secondary school memories are of what happened during Irish classes!

csirl said:

If you ask most people if they think that teaching children to speak Irish (or any other language) is a good idea, most will say yes.

But the question that should be asked is if people think that teaching children to speak Irish, instead of teaching them science, is a good idea, how many would say yes?

But this is exactly the situation we are currently in. The teaching of Irish in primary school IS at the expense of teaching science, which gets very little time in the primary school timetable in comparison with most developed countries.

And people wonder why multinationals complain about poor standards in science and mathematics.

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There's speculation at present that there will be a move away from the current, wide primary school curriculum, in favour of spending more time at maths, English and science.

Between 15 and 20% of primary school time is taken up with the teaching of Irish. I'm not sure that this time will have been well spent on those who will spend their lives living and working in Australia and Canada..........

They'll be like the lads abroad in the Carlsberg ad, talking about Sharon Ní Bheoláin and cáca milis!

If Irish were optional no one would do it. That's the truth and all those gaelscolanna would disappear. I wasted 14 years learning Irish and I can't even speak a sentence of it never mind write it. And the same goes for nearly everyone on AAM. Despite this I have passed it in my leaving certificate and also for a qualification.

The 'false' percentages given of Irish speakers is a lie to keep money flowing to vested interest. I have no problem with those who can and do speak Irish in the gaeltaecht and have no problem with the financial support, if wisely spent on them. I know people on the Udaras and I know the waste it is.

If anyone were serious about Irish it should be made compulsory, from day one at school. My other half learnt English when he went to school and that's the day he started to lose his Irish. How we Irish learnt English is because it was compulsory. It has been thanks to English that I and my husband have jobs. That is also why the Irish had an advantage in the UK and America. They will never make it compulsory as there would be riots and we'd soon see how many people actually support it.

We're even going to have the unedifying spectacle of a leaders debate in Irish and I'm in no doubt that there will not be any proper debate, only rote learnt replies and the level will not be in any way equal to the standard of English. As far as I'm aware none of the leaders is a native speaker, does not live in an Irish speaking household, does not conduct any business in Irish, doesn't have contact with Irish speakers, doesn't write in Irish nor watch TV in Irish. Watching TG4 with subtitles doesn't count. No doubt the debate will be translated into English on the spot. And we can all then debate the translation. What a merry-go-round.

Bronte said:

If Irish were optional no one would do it. That's the truth and all those gaelscolanna would disappear.

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I dunno Bronte - there are enough people who post on here about the importance of preserving our heritage and culture through Irish being taught - surely in the wider population there would be enough people who feel like this to warrant some children being encouraged to do Irish?

Would it not be like other optional subjects - some are more or less popular in some schools, some are more or less popular by dint of being more or less interesting etc....

Have to disagree with some of that Bronte. I don't believe that no one would learn Irish if it were optional - I believe the opposite, that it would be those who want to learn it that would take it, thus resulting in a better appreciation for the language in those that do take it. Obviously the teaching methods would need to be improved as well. All of this will be gradual rather than any quick change but I think long term making it optional will increase the appetite to learn it.

If Irish were optional no one would do it. That's the truth and all those gaelscolanna would disappear

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Quite a claim Bronte! Extrapolating from your opinion & experience to such an absolute statement is a bit OTT. Although I have to say" Peig" damaged me in ways I haven't ever come to terms with.

If Irish were optional no one would do it. That's the truth and all those gaelscolanna would disappear.

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If Irish speakers didnt get bonus marks in State exams and didnt get an easier entry route into some professions e.g. teaching, we would also have a dramatic reduction in the no. of gaelscolanna.

While it's not politically correct to say it, the other factor in the gaelscolanna revolution is parents in areas with high numbers of non-national not wanting their kids to go to english speaking schools which are full of kids who can't actually speak english. It's no coincidence that the biggest growth in the gaelscolanna movement has been in suburbs with very high % of non-nationals.

horusd said:

Quite a claim Bronte! Extrapolating from your opinion & experience to such an absolute statement is a bit OTT. Although I have to say" Peig" damaged me in ways I haven't ever come to terms with.

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I read Peig in English so I could know what it was about and so that I could pass Irish. Irish is a requirement for entry to University and is compulsory too so that's the reason people 'study' it along with it being a requirment for certain positions/jobs. Maybe I'm OTT but never fear the Gaelgoir's will come to the rescue and we are in letting off steam territory.

My culture and heritage is in no way diminished by not being able to speak Irish.

If Irish were taken seriously, which it is not nor never will be then I might have a different viewpoint.

Wonder how many of you would tell your children not to do Irish if it was not compulsory and not necessary for university. Would you encourage them to do a different language or subject.

Bronte said:

Irish is a requirement for entry to University and is compulsory too so that's the reason people 'study' it.

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I dont believe Irish is a requirement for University (well for some courses perhaps - but not all).

I modified my last post.

Don't know why but I thought Irish, English and Maths had to be passed for uni?