Meeting with financial advisor today re pension planning.......

J

Jumbled

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What do I need to ask please....
I am teaching in a permanent position for twenty years. I trained as a nurse in the old system and proceeded to work in temporary positions for11 years, inclusive of training which was heavily work based. Ive been told that these years are considered non pensionable service because of some rule pre 1999.
I do not want notional service as my pension will not be passed on to my children if I die. I am divorced also and have two children with SN. So are AVCs the way to go?I will have 40 years pensionable(30 yrs) and non pensionable service(10) done in 9 years, inclusive of three years teacher training, three years nurse training and an extra 1.5 years in post grad studies, which also was heavily work based.
What are the pertinent questions I need to ask please? I'm ignorant when it comes to pensions etc. Thanks
 
If you feel that the combination of the State Pension and the teachers pension based on 30 years service isn't enough income in retirement, then you could consider an AVC, yes.

A teachers pension based on 40 years service, retiring now, is about 40k - 41k gross, inclusive of the State Pension.

With 30 years service, yours would be a bit less.

The question is - does that seem enough for you?
 
Protocol said:
f you feel that the combination of the State Pension and the teachers pension based on 30 years service isn't enough income in retirement, then you could consider an AVC, yes.
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The teachers pension after 1995 is a co-ordinated pension, inclusive of the state pension. Hence it's not the "gold plated" deal that many still refer too. Definitely consider carefully which advisor you chose. I am also a teacher and have heard good reports of PSRA in Maynooth. I have no connection to them or experience of dealing with them but a number of colleagues have recommended them.
 
Jumbled said:
I am teaching in a permanent position for twenty years. I trained as a nurse in the old system and proceeded to work in temporary positions for11 years, inclusive of training which was heavily work based. Ive been told that these years are considered non pensionable service because of some rule pre 1999.
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I don't know about this "rule". However you should enquire about having your previous service transferred into your current pension scheme. The service will need to be verified by your previous employer (or employers). This is not always quick or straightforwarded so the sooner you go about it the better. As part of the transfer you should also ask about previous service that was not pensioned - it is often possible to have this made pensionable (and this is much cheaper than buying notional years). This service will also have to be verified.

You should contact your current HR department about this. Give them as much information about previous public sector employments/ service as possible eg,

  • Name and contact details of your previous employer
  • Personnel number under your previous employment
  • Exact dates of service with your previous employer
  • Position title(s) under your previous employment
  • Contract type(s) under your previous employment i.e. permanent, temporary etc.
  • Any other details of relevance regarding your previous employment
More details here: https://www.nsso.gov.ie/en/services/additional-services/
 
In my experience "financial advisors" are generally tied agents or brokers for life companies on commission so a financial advisor meeting is generally a hard sell of overpriced pension products. Don't be duped. Never buy a product with more than .6% annual management charge (AMC) or less than 100% allocation. Ask these two questions to your so called "financial advisor".
 
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Jumbled said:
Ive been told that these years are considered non pensionable service because of some rule pre 1999.
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Who told you? I ask because I had pre-1999 service in another organization transferred and made pensionable (at a very reasonable cost). There was no technical difficulty involved but there was a practical difficulty. Basically the official request from my organization to the previous one went nowhere (there was a big time gap involved). There was no follow up from the old organization.
I then went about contacting them myself but got little movement until by chance I got talking on the phone to an assistant who went about checking records and filling in dates herself to present to her boss. It was only then that the relevant documentation was completed and returned to my employer. Once that was done it was plain sailing - I just had to make the requisite payment.
 
@Ruffian The Mater Hospital pensions dept told me that my training and my temporary nursing role..for year... was not pensionable.was she wrong. this is was from 1992-1995..training and 1995-1996 staff nurse.
 
Jumbled said:
The Mater Hospital pensions dept told me that my training and my temporary nursing role..for year... was not pensionable.was she wrong. this is was from 1992-1995..training and 1995-1996 staff nurse.
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I was not in nursing but I think they were certainly wrong in relation to the temporary nursing role, and probably wrong in relation to the training. See this previous thread: https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threa...-to-avc-with-option-to-buy-back-years.222363/

PS. The first thing is to get the service verified - to the satisfaction of your current HR department. Make the pension arrangements with them - not with The Mater.
 
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Jumbled said:
these years are considered non pensionable service because of some rule pre 1999.
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Are you in the ETBI sector? I wonder if either or both of these circulars relate to the "rule"?
A cursory reading suggests that part-time or casual service in the sector that was not pensionable at the time can be made pensionable back to 1996.


 
Flybytheseat said:
Never buy a product with more than .6% annual management charge (AMC) or less than 100% allocation.
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While I agree fully with the advice to ask anyone trying to sell you a product to detail all charges, I'm curious about this statement.

OP says that they are ignorant when it comes to pensions etc. So an execution only service would not be suitable. Are there brokers offering advice on product selection and fund selection while offering 100% allocation and 0.6% AMC? I've only seen such charges for execution-only services.
 
LDFerguson said:
OP says that they are ignorant when it comes to pensions etc. So an execution only service would not be suitable. Are there brokers offering advice on product selection and fund selection while offering 100% allocation and 0.6% AMC? I've only seen such charges for execution-only services.
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That's true and from what I've read there are even lower AMCs of 0.4% execution only now available. If you're not comfortable making the decision on your own then please do engage a genuine financial advisor. I'm sure Liam is one of those. Just beware that there are a lot (perhaps a majority ???) of financial advisors out there that will charge you north of 1% for their meagre services and land you with a trail commission that will cost you thousands over many years for virtually no service or benefit.

The Irish Pensions industry has abused clients/marks for much of the past 40 years. I've been stung myself with financial advisors giving 95% allocation (i.e. 5% commission for no work at all) and trail commissions of >1% per annum for no advice. The Irish pensions industry was a minefield full of charlatans 20 years ago. It has improved slightly but there are still sharks and scam financial advisors out there in their in droves (maybe 75% or more are tied agents trying to push a product !). It's a minefield so choose your advisor well. There are a good few genuine ones who post on these forums so maybe start there.

Never act on financial advice from your bank as that is just a scam.
 
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Flybytheseat said:
Never act on financial advice from your bank as that is just a scam.
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I agree with the first part but not the second part. Unless there's actual misselling there's no scam involved. Just a tied agent who might steer a customer in the direction of a less than optimal product with potentially higher than necessary charges. Caveat emptor. That's why I asked earlier what sort of "financial advisor" is involved here, but the original poster never addressed that point.
 
In your situation, a better question would be - Does anybody know a pension adviser who can offer advice about nurses’ pension schemes and how different types of service count? I don't.

From a few cases that I know of, it is a really complicated area – and in addition, the HR system is very fragmented – and hard to get consistent answers.

In many parts of the public service, there tends to be courses prior to retirement, part of which includes a pension adviser giving advice around pensions. If you could find somebody who covers that subject on nurses’ courses, then such a person might be able to assist you.

Otherwise, you are likely to finishing up discussing AVCs with an adviser without clarifying if any of the old service is reckonable.
 
Tuscany said:
In your situation, a better question would be - Does anybody know a pension adviser who can offer advice about nurses’ pension schemes and how different types of service count? I don't.
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It's a very good point. I think there's an opportunity for someone to set themselves up as a fee-based expert on public service pensions, who doesn't sell AVCs. As far as I know they wouldn't require Central Bank authorisation as the PS schemes are not "financial products". Perhaps someone who has retired from the public service themselves. I think there a few possible candidates here on Askaboutmoney but I suspect they're already sorted with jobs or possibly happily retired.

I do more work with private sector pension schemes than public service and, while I have a good working knowledge of the public sector schemes that I have gathered over a few decades, I certainly wouldn't hold myself out as an expert on the fine details such as the first post here.

The problem with the few brokers who do specialise in public servants is that their main aim is to sell AVCs. Undoubtedly some of them have gathered a lot of experience and expertise on the workings of the main schemes, but I get the sense that this is only used to assist the AVC sale.
 
Agree with the lack of advice on complex public service pension arrangements. Definite gap in the market but would people pay for the complex work involved, if no AVC commission to cover it? Each person can be a unique case requiring research in terms of service transfer etc if they have moved between schemes and agencies
Came across these recently but have never used them so DYOR
madesimple.ie

Public Sector Pensions Ireland | Expert Financial Advice

Public Sector pensions can be confusing. We help public sector employees understand their scheme and benefits for best financial planning.
madesimple.ie madesimple.ie
 
Tuscany said:
95% allocation and charges of greater than 1% seem to be the norm throughout the public sector for AVCs; in the civil service, education and health sectors.
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Yes, I see the TUI scheme has a 2% contribution charge although this seems to be from 2017:


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But some AVC schemes run by Cornmarket have 100% allocation:


1741815970471.png
 
Threadser said:
The teachers pension after 1995 is a co-ordinated pension, inclusive of the state pension. Hence it's not the "gold plated" deal that many still refer too.
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Note that after the pre 1995 and post 1995 schemes are designed to deliver the same value of benefits.

A worker with 40 years service under each scheme would get the same value of benefits.
 
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