Margarita Island, off the north-eastern coast of Venezuela.

Hi All,

Still a lot of dilemmas:

-Why I can not see any official political declarations in regard of respecting private property in Venezuela?
-Dilemma of buying through a company ( like the one Paragon is promoting) versus a direct buy property...not sure which will protect you more..in case of political decisions regarding the property.
-in top of all of the risks for an off plan property you will expose you need to add the political situation who can take away your property at any time...
-The price is not anymore a bargain...as for example a good value you can get in Florida...at this time..
-It looks for me is a buyer time as the offer exceeds the demand..all over the places.

These are my thoughts and I am wellcoming any comments pros and cons..

Best regards,

Vergica
 

I read every bit of F1 news that's going (bit of an anorak I'm afraid) and have not read of this. I'd be sceptical. The only online references I can find on this "announcement" are on property websites.

See here. This is a discussion on the merits or otherwise of a Wikipedia page on the rumoured Venezuala Grand Prix. The page itself has since been removed as not sufficiently notable:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Formula_One/Archive_12#Venezuelan_Grand_Prix

Not saying it is not going to happen, but would be suspicious until I see something more authorative.
 
With regard to F1, I did quote "If this project is announced to be going ahead". We have checked with the Mayor's Office in Margarita and also with the largest magazine company on the island, Caribe Genuino and they stated that negotiations are still on going and that they will be making an announcement this coming summer regarding the F1 track as to 1) whether the proposed track will go ahead and 2) if so, where on the island will it be built. There are currently 2 locations under discussion, which are close to the airport or on Macanao, the western part of the island, however, the latter location will most likely be out as this part of the island is a National Park and disturbance to the flora and fauna will have strong opposition.

It is true that all internet searches only lead to agents promoting it as fact and this is why after my investigations, I posted "if" and once the official announcements are made, then and only then should somebody purchase on the basis of the track going ahead. All of our clients that have already purchased made their decision on the basis of the development and the area itself, not on what might be. If the track goes ahead, it will be a major boost, but never make a decision based on something that only might be, no matter what the agent says.

In answer to Vergica; much of the political situation is blown way out of proportion and in my view, most of it is based on American propaganda, wanting the control over Venezuela's oil resources. Perhaps you should view this link and watch the trailer. It is a documentary about Latin America made by one of the most experienced and respected journalist in the world, John Pilger. He was won Emmy's, Bafta's and other awards both in the Europe and in the USA for his documentaries. You can view the trailer on and should you wish then to watch the complete documentary, you can purchase the dvd of the doumentary on www.cdwow.ie. If nothing else, it will be educational.
 
negotiations are still on going
Click to expand...
I think people are correct to be sceptical, I mean 'negotiations' can mean pretty much anything. I have a vision of 2 guys sipping Margarita's on a beach 'negotiating' about a F1 track. I also think it's ironic that you are supposed to drink margarita's with a pinch of salt!
 
Hey this is for THATS RIGHT

Are you 100% sure the project you mention has the anteproyecto approved (let alone the build licence)....?

Capital gains tax in MargaritaIsland is 34% not 0.05%. I dare you to find a Venezuelan lawyer or any other lawyer who will put that in writing for you
You are getting confused with the 0.5% sales tax.

Good luck
 
To GKAP

Yes, this project has its full planning permission and building license. Would you like a copy of it?

Secondly, Capital Gains Tax in Venezuela is 34%, however, there is no Capital Gains Tax in Margarita. There is a 0.05% Tax on financial transactions, however, dividends are tax free.
And yes, our solicitor in Margarita is prepared to put this in writing.

Either way, there will be no tax liability at all with the Caracola Beach & Spa Resort in Margarita, as I have explained before that the ownership is set up through company ownership, registered in Wyoming, USA, as Limited Liability Companies (LLC's). This means that when you sell your property you are selling your 100% shareholding in the company, so to the Margarita government, for example, ABC LLC will always own the property, and the property will always remain registered to ABC LLC. Then your only tax liability will be in your country of residence and if that is Ireland, then your Capital Gains Tax liability will be 20% payable to the Irish Tax authorities for the Captial Gain made for the profit of sale of your company.
 
To various people involved

1) Paragon. The information you provide about CGT in your previous comments is technically incorrect according to a Venezuelan lawyer based in London working for a top notch UK law firm. Feel free to get the lawyer who gave you that advice to put it in writing and to state that Margarita does not have capital gains tax. The capital gains tax in margarita is 34% and this applies also to rental income. You can try and avoid it by purchasing via offshore companies, creative accounting and other methods

2) Paragon. I agree about your point re propaganda

3) Vergica: There has never been a compulsory purchase of foreign property on MargaritaIsland. Compulsory purchase must occur for public benefit. Margaritas economy is based on Tourism. Compulsory purchase exits in UK and USA and is regulated by legislation. Hence when western governments expropriate land is that not a matter of concern? Why don’t people stop investing in UK...? All propaganda...

Also the constitution protects private property and foreigners have the same rights as citizens. With regards to political declaration I can provide such document. The differences between buying through company or as an individual should be evaluated from a taxation point of view, neither method would offer less security as Venezuelan law allows companies to purchase properties

Florida may seem a bargain to those who think the property market there has reached the bottom but if you take a view that it hasn’t its a different kettle of fish. Furthermore Margarita has amongst the lowest prices in the Caribbean per square metre. Why don’t you compare prices per square metre like for like i.e. front line beach in Florida and front line beach in Margarita or a property in Porlamar and one in Miami....?

3) Budapest: In 10 years time Venezuela will not be left wing. Once Chavez is ousted and that could be as soon as half way through his current mandate via referendum (although he was vote with 2/3 of the vote the polls only give him 1/3 currently), foreign investment will increase considerably and property prices will increase. By that time we would expect to have mortgages at reasonable rates and already Margarita has a net influx of immigration to justify developing new property on the island. Remember there is approximately a 1 million unit housing deficit in the country; to keep this lag constant 130k units need to be built every year but private and public sector are currently building approximately 40k units p.a. If you know the politics of Venezuela you may take a gamble if you so consider it. I think that prices can only go one way given their current levels. Also think of the booming tourist market: 1.5 million tourists in 2005, 2.3 in 2006, 2.6million in 2007 and increasing ...the island has approximately 400k inhabitants and is only 66km x 3km...There is limited supply of land and enormous demand. How do you think companies are able to offer rental guarantees otherwise. With Chavez out of the equation and mortgages investors and retirees will definitely prefer Margarita to most other locations.

4) Merx07: why would Venezuela go belly up with a booming economy? There are recent economic studies from Washington think tanks that depict a positive picture of the Venezuelan economy. The credit crunch is affecting very badly the USA and other parts of the world. What’s your long term view on the $ or what do the markets think? Why are western central banks intervening so aggressively in the money markets?
The financial system in the western world is walking a tight rope (thanks to the greed of American lenders and city players thinking only about their end of year bonus) but other countries such as Russia, India, China and even Venezuela will pick up the pieces in the long-term.

5) rekhib: there are foreign exchange restrictions but there are perfectly legal ways of taking your money out of the country via alternative markets to the cash market and through the central banking system. Of course you also need to prove that you purchase the property legally by introducing ALL MONIES necessary for the purchase into the country rather than keeping the monies offshore. Take care of the developers who don’t provide documentation to that effect.

potential purchasers: do you homework and look at price per square metre as well as rental potential and security of purchase. You can find the former by consulting major property portals such as The Movechannel or rightmove.co.uk. Alternatively go to see estate agents on the island and evaluate how much rental returns they can offer you...and compare it with what is being advertised in the UK. However make sure you do your due diligence very well....

6) Adding to Paragon and replying to rekhib: money laundering, dealing in black market for currency and not introducing currrency in the country are criminal offences which have penalties which vary from a fine of twice the amount evaded (for amounts less than $10,000 approximately) to imprisonment.

7) rekhib: there are legal ways of introducing or taking currency out of the country at market value without operating on the black market...but I am not qualified to give such advice

8) rekhib: which government or government agency do you think allows drugs to come out of South America and onto western markets? Do you think certain presidents of the western world north of Venezuela have been elected fairly or do people prefer to turn a blind eye...? You have countries in western Europe where parties accuse each other of being undemocratic (fascists or communists). There reality is that power erodes those who don’t have it...You have countries in western Europe where not too long ago a Prime Minister had control of national and private television stations yet no one decided not to invest in that country. Please keep politics where it should be. There are many companies that invest in Venezuela...The situation in Venezuela is simple. The are people upset with the fact that someone else is in power and redistributing wealth. Before Chavez came to power the country was literally gifting away oil. There are many other oil producing countries which impose much worse conditions than Venezuela to foreign oil companies. Every ruling class will govern to its own benefit to a certain extent, some more than others....I suppose you believe Iraq had WMD as well. By the way 7% is nothing compared to what could make in Margarita...just speak to a local letting agent...
 
To GKAP:

I completely agree with all that you have commented on and I only wish more people could see the real situation of Venezuela.

1. According to our solicitors who are based in Margarita, they inform me that CGT in Venezuela is 34% but in Margarita it is 0% plus a financial transaction fee of 0.05%. Whoever is correct, with our development, there will be no CGT as the company will change hands and not the property; as to the Notary the same company will always own the property but the ownership of the company will change hands therefore only a Capital Gain of 20% will be payable but to the Irish Revenue (or whatever rate applies in the client's country of residence).

2. If anybody is truly interested in the real story of both Venezuela and the rest of the South America, then I re-iterate about making the effort and purchasing the dvd "War on Democracy" by John Pilger.

3. I would nearly prefer to see Chavez stay in power. He has done considerable amounts for the people of Venezuela, such as reduce poverty, introducing government owned supermarkets in poverty stricken area, so the locals can purchase food cheaply. When previous governments would not issue deeds for people's houses, Chavez did. He introduced education systems to teach the 150,000 or so illiterate adults and now is virtually zero. He has reduced the national debt from in 1999 US$3 billion to zero. He has provided free health and dental care.
He has more to do, but he is heading in the right direction. Imagine if someone else got in that were like the governments prior to Chavez.

The rest of your comments, I cannot add to, as they are all completely true and I would second them, except that I would also like to post a translation of the actual laws that govern the protection of overseas owners in Venezuela:

DECREE NUMBER 356 3RD OCTOBER 1999

HUGO CHAVES FRAIS​
​
DECREE WITH RANK AND POWER OF PROMOTION LAWS AND PROTECTION OF INVESTORS​

Article 6

International investments will have the rights to an equal and just treatment conforming to the norms and criteria’s of international laws and will not be subject to arbitratory measures or discrimination that could impede maintenance, management, usage, enjoyment extensions, sales or liquidation.

Article 7

International investments and investors will have the same rights and obligations as national investments and investors have, if they are in similar circumstances. The only exceptions are those subject to particular laws and limitations contained in the Decree.

Article 8

No discrimination will be faced by international investors or investments on the basis of their country of origin.

Article 9

International investments and investors will have the right to be treated more favourably conforming to the articles 7 and 8 of this decree/law.

Article 10

National investments and investors from Venezuela will have the right to be treated equally as to international investors provided they are in similar circumstances.
 
For all those loookingto Invest in USA instead of Margarita Island

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

<SPAN id=printReady>




And for those looking to invest in UK

House prices will fall by up to 20% over the next 2 years, according
to Morgan Stanley…

Speaking at the Wriglesworth Consultancy’s third annual Great Housing Market Debate on Tuesday 18th March, David Miles, Managing Director of Morgan Stanley, predicted: House prices will fall by 20% in real terms in the next two years.

“However, any housing market correction will not impinge on the wider economy. GDP growth is expected to increase by 1%-2% in the next year and although unemployment levels may rise, it would not be by much.




Also can anyone tell me what kind of yields one would expect from renting UK or USA property and how this compares with the astronimcal figures in Margarita.......?
 
@GKAP and Paragon: I'd be very interested to learn how it is possible to legally introduce or extract VEBs or VEFs at market value. In fact, I have 300,000 VEBs in my study which I'd be prepared to offer up to whoever proposes a workable solution. Would the effort in converting the funds at market value be worth E100, probably not, but that's not market value is it?

@GKAP: I've never been to Iraq so I'd be disinclined to make any assumptions about the presence of WMDs. Your logic is somewhat hard to follow but it seems that you're trying to imply that I form my political opinions based on propaganda. I can assure you that nothing is further from the truth, equally, I can assure you that my observations regarding Venezuela are purely empirical.

7% wasn't my estimation of the yield in Margarita, it is the guaranteed yield, as I understood, being offered by the developer and my point was that, for me anyway, that yield isn't high enough to justify entrace into such a risky market. 7% gross is very achievable in more developed, more tested markets a lot closer to home and if I were in search of higher yields and more risk, I would opt for Buenos Aires. Much more reliable from many perspectives which I've already outlined and in which I won't delve again. You are right GKAP in that the yields are high in Margarita but that's economics. Investors should be justly rewarded for such a high-risk investment.

@Paragon: I really enjoyed your comment, 'I would nearly prefer Chavez to stay in power'. I appreciate that the law seems unequivocal with regard to international investments. It's pretty naive to assume though that in a developing country, the law and the practicalities will be efficacious. I mean, it's not enshrined in Venezuelan law that the national guard can steal from people on a whim, yet, they do. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if it were enshrined in law so that might be a moot point.
 
To GKAP: Could you provide me with the details of the London based law firm as I have checked once again with our lawyers in Margarita and they have told me once again that I am correct. Are the lawyers you speak of specialist in Venezuela or are they just looking up info on the net as the fugures you state are correct for Venezuela but not for Margarita.

To REKHIB: Is the currency that you have old currency or new currency, i.e. post 01/01/2008?
You may well get 7% GROSS in countries closer to home however, what percentage will you get nett? In Margarita we are offering 7% NET with no management fees, no maintenance fees and no annual service charges. Take a typical annual service charge alone for a property even in this country and you could pay over €2,000 p.a. Then you also have on top of this management charges to a letting agent.
I do agree with GKAP that you can earn much higher income in Margarita, but what we are offering is completely hassle free and it still provides a good income. In year 5, if the hotel occupancy rates are above 75%, (currently at 84%), the rental income will increase to 8.25%.
I completely disagree that Margarita is high risk. If it is such high risk, why are so many American companies setting up there. Why also has the integrated energy company ENI recently signed a contract with Chavez to develop the Orinoco region of Venezuela for the production of upto 300,000 barrels of oil per day? Venezuela is far from being against foreign investors.
You state that I am naive to assume the law and the practicalities will be efficacious. Can you tell me where, when and to whom anything has being done against any forreign company in the past (Chazez era) and where the national guard is stealing from people? This is absolutely not true. Do you think that the people there would stand for that. They are not little obeying sheep! Take for example, the American backed coup in 2002, when US$2 million was given by the US to back the opposition party to overthrow Chavez. This they done and within 48 hours the people marched the streets with the national guard and put Chavez back into power.
I said "nearly" as it may change narrow minded perceptions of the country if there was a more American bowing leader in place.
 
rekhib:

if you look carefully in margarita (eg Coche Island) you should find projects advertised as yielding 8% guaranteed rentals over 5 years and then up to 20%+ net rental annual yields. Project is 5 months from completion, with 40% finance at 9% over 5 years. Due diligence is done, project has developer finance in place....where is the risk? and where can you get similar returns in Bueno Aires? or anywhere else? plese let me know

paragon: IPLC employ a full time Venezuelan lawyer
 
"Whoever is correct, with our development, there will be no CGT as the company will change hands and not the property; "

On this specific point, just for the benefit of others reading this who might feel there is a general loophole here, most countries, Ireland included, have basic rules which prevent such a simple side-stepping of CGT liability. Shares (in any jurisdiction) which derive their value or the greater part of their value from Irish land are liable to CGT in Ireland. I would be surprised if Venezuela did not have such rules, and I certainly would not rely on such rules never being introduced.

(As an aside, I have often wondered if the Irish Revenue were lax over the sale of the Esat network, which was widely reported as having accrued a tax-free Capital Gain to some of the vendors. It was surely the case that the Esat shares derived their value, or the greater part of their value, from real property assets in Ireland (i.e. the network infrastructure). No matter how the transaction was structured, I would have thought that it would therefore be taxable. But what do I know...........)
 
@Paragon: The currency I have is in VEB, i.e. the old currency. I'd be less interested in extracting the money at market value, more interested in how I would introduce money at market value. ;-) I wouldn't be at all surprised if the yields were higher in Margarita when compared to Western Europe, that's perfectly rational (given the risk profile of the location), and yes, of course, 7% gross would equate to a couple of pips lower in net.

With regard to your point on ENI, as with many of your arguments for investing in this location, the reasoning is extremely specious. ENI since entering the Venezuelan market (itself an obvious choice for an energy company given that Venezuela is the region's only member of OPEC) has been embroiled in lengthy legal disputes with the government (not about the Orinoco fields - eh, yet), so much so that it would be difficult to count a 1 year period in the companies activity there devoid of legal contention with the government, a particularly worrying fact as they've been in there for about 40 years.

Given Venezuela's huge oil and gas reserves and Chavez's conceit that he himself can't manually drudge the heavy oil from the ground, it's completely understandable that he brings in multi-nationals on mutually beneficial deals. I'm not arguing that this isn't great for the country, it is. I'm just trying to point out that all is not as rosy as it seems, but that's sales isn't it.

ENI are one of the largest energy companies in the world, they have a market cap of over $100bn. Only about 30% of their proven reserves are located within North America and the EU, thus, they effectively have no choice about entering risky markets whereas the rest of us do. They enter, however, with the concept of country risk (surmounting to economic and political instability in these markets) at the forefront of their corporate policies, rightly so. 30,000 barrels a day (expanding to 300,000 barrels a day) in this region of Venezuela is a fraction of ENI's total capacity for oil refining (currently over a million barrels a day and very expandable (unnecessary of course) based on current proven reserves of about 5 trillion barrels). This 3% exposure is a well-gauged risk. If I was able to get on the Venezuelan property market with just 3% of my liquid cash, I would certainly do it, but only because the other 97% of my portfolio would be hedged in more secure markets. It's akin to me buying a lottery ticket on occasion, no harm but I wouldn't want to bank my financial future on it by spending the entirety of my disposable income each week. Personally, I think it is irresponsible to sell such developments to amateur investors. Please don't take offense at that anyone who is thinking of investing, I'm just pointing out that amateur investors are likely to be wooed by promises of 8% net yields without paying much heed to the risks, which are plentiful.

For what it's worth, ENI and others have suffered at the hands of Chavez's re-nationalisation of the oil industry (does that in itself not send alarm bells ringing for anyone else?). Chavez's government increased corporation tax hugely on foreign oil companies, expected them to open their proprietary techniques to Venezuelan owned companies and reneged on previously signed contracts. Exxon Mobil is probably the most widely publicised case of a multi-national not submitting to ridiculous impositions by a farcical government; this effectively forced them to sell their stake in the fields and leave the country. Both, i.e. the Venezuelan government and Exxon, are now involved in protracted legal battles on the matter. I bet they're happy with their investment in Venezuela.

By the way, I'm fairly sure it's standard hotel policy in metropolitan areas of mainland Venezuela to issue warnings to tourists about avoiding the national guard and the municipal police because robberies are so frequent.

@GKAP: 20%+ net is much more realistic given the risk profile. What is the entry level for that return? Please don't quote it to me in VEF ;-) There are a few single-unit residential markets around that hit the 12-15% mark but not many. My original point was I'd settle for over 10% in BsAs rather than 8% in this development in Margarita. 20% would, indeed, make me think twice, if your sources are accurate. I haven't heard back from you re: legally getting my money into Venezuela at market value though.
 
Indeed. Out of personal interest I checked the text of the Dutch tax treaty with Venezuela, because there is already one in place, and it perhaps serves as an indicator of what could be expected from other European countries. As you suggest, any income (rent) or profits at disposal (sale) from immovable property is treated the same way, whether it is channeled via personal ownership or via property company ownership or via a shell company in a third country. The only thing that counts is the location of the property (Venezuela) and the country of residence of the owner (Netherlands). The Dutch could of course impose their property related taxes on a Dutch resident or Dutch company.... Venezuela may also impose its local taxes on the property, in which case there would be a reduction in the equivalent Dutch tax. But you do not escape either tax regime, and you only get double taxation relief on directly equivalent taxes. If Venezuela imposed a specific capital gains tax on disposal of property, I could not claim relief in the Netherlands going back multiple years, because the Netherlands does not have the concept of any capital gains tax, and instead only has an annual tax on total mean asset value. So watch out on such gross claims about zero tax liabilities and be sure to get personal tax advice.
 
Staring price Euros 83.000 for 2 apartment hotel suites 38m2 each. Frontline beach next to the sand. 40% finance at 9 percent for 5 years. 8% rental guarantees during 5 years. Expected 15-20% rental return for buyer after 5 years. You may be aware there are only several hundred beds on CocheIsland and 2.7 million tourists visiting Margarita each year...
 
There is a very substantial article on property investments on Margarita Islands in today's Irish Times property supplement.
 
Chavez is a socialist and prefers Cuba to the USA, socialists are not capitalists. Investors want to make money.
Even the Spanish Monarchy told Chavez to shut his mouth. I think saying Chavez is the best thing since sliced bread is not actually right. Elected or not, he tried to change the constitution so he had more powers.
Of course every one wants people out of poverty, it is the way they do it. Though government programmes or the market.
Investors and socialism does not mix.
Debt may have been paid by petrodollars.
 
Has anyone noticed that there are other off-plan development opportunities on Margarita Island. I would be interested in any views about these, e.g. Last Wind. The developer is UK based offering 8% for 2 years and then reverting to a 50% room share through a hotel operator to be negotiated. These are 1, 2 and 3 bed villas up to £118,000 sterling and single storey on a 5 star resort, not like cracola apartments which will reach 15 storey!
 
I, like many of you work hard for my money and look to forums such as this for unbiased and informed advise (which I am going to share) with you about Margarita Island (M.I.)
So I hope the moderator doesnt delete or edit.

I actually lived on MI for 7 yrs FULL TIME and left almost a year ago now.....so I like to think I know what I am talking about.
I owned a property which I purchased some 5 yrs ago (which was the best time to invest by the way.....not now)
My reason for posting this is to pass on my extensive knowledge...thats all.

M.I. Is indeed a charming Island, but it is a country in dire economical straits. Inflation is at 29.3% YTD (officially) but is nearer 40% in reality.
check out www dot veneconomy dot com

The currency is the Boilvar Fuerte or (Bfs), which was adopted on the 1st Jan 2008, replacing the plain old Bolivar. The only difference is they knocked off 3 zeros.
Eg. 1000 Bolivars is now 1 bf

There are 2 currency rates that exist, official and blackmarket.
Official is $1 usd equals 2 bf, blackmarket $1 / 3bf...........this is NOW
The blackmarket rate was almost $1 to 5.8 bf only 6 months ago !
This is when M.I was a cheap destination to live or holiday at..........Imagaine, you could change $1000 and get almost 6000 bf.................more than enough to live on for 2 months like a king on M.I.................now with hyper inflation and blackmarket rate way down, alot of things are now cheaper in Europe (not property) cost of living.

Now property.............what the agents and developers DONT tell you is that when you want to sell (which is hard enough anyway), that the sale has to be done in Bf. This is the law.
The Notarias are much more controlled now, so insist on seeing evidence of the transaction being carried out in Bf.
When you buy a property from the many UK or Irish developers now touting M.I. They accept your sterling or Euro payment..........BECAUSE they can and are not breaking the law, as their accounts are either UK based or Euro based.
But you try and sell and get your money back into sterling or Euros is very very hard........plus you are breaking Venezuelan law (punishable by imprisonment if detected)
The only people who are investing in the many buildings sprouting up everywhere are the locals........why ?
They can get loans from banks at 23% (crazy), but better than the 50% it was and invest it in property as they see this as better than having money in the banks as inflation outstrips intertest !

Claims of Formula One and golfing projetcs are at best “Pie in the sky”. I actually called the Formula One headquaters in Paris (F.I.A) and they knew nothing of it.
As for golf, there are 2 courses at present on M.I. One has been in legal wranglings for 7 yrs and has nevr been played on (oppossite Hilton Hotel), the other is located at the North of the Island and is at best “parched”

Water is a precious commodity on M.I. And it is common place in high season for buildings (especially in Porlamar) to ration water daily. Turning on for an hour in the mornings, afternoons and nights..............so new golf courses being built.......?????

M.I. Is also a “long haul” destination, so rentals are very very hard to sustain long enough to make it a performer in your portfolio.

If after reading this, you are still intent on buying there, ask for documentary eveidence from developers or agents making such claims. At best you be sent a link to a glossy mag or newspaper article.....nothing concrete.

In short..............dont invest !


£118,000 sterling................are you NUTS.............do you know what and where you can buy for that with stable currency, stable economies and capital growth.......if you dont, you should


I see you like to cover you back.......even if F1 is staged there, this is 1 day event a year. Macanoa seems the only logical place it could be built......middle of now where ! I caed the FIA in Paris and they knew nothing of this proposal. You are just trying to sell your product......sleep well
 
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