Made redundant after 15 yrs. Just discovered I was not in pension, but I thought I was

15 years….
How long would you have let it go before asking how your pension was doing?

I get that everyone has sympathy for your situation, I though struggle to see how you seem to exonerate yourself from basic knowledge that you were not paying to a pension, and should have known same.

Not knowing your pin has the similar ring to dog ate my home work.

Hr, wrc, etc etc, one year not knowing, pushing it to two years… but 15.. ridiculous.
 
Can you clarify exactly what paperwork you have?
  1. PDF payslips even if PIN locked? For how long/what period? Can't you request the PIN again to check them?
  2. P60s from back when they were issued by Revenue that might contain evidence of any pension contributions?
  3. The contract of employment that you signed originally?
  4. The employee handbook?
  5. Any other info about the pension and related benefits of employment?
  6. Pension statements for some period?
  7. Anything else?
Is there anybody else in a similar situation to you that you could discuss this with?
 
I believe OP would have a case to make on the grounds of his employment contract.

If employer can't show documentation that he opted out; they would have been expected to act on the contract condition & opted him in.

Having said that, putting the OP back in the position he should be i.e. with 15 years worth of pension contributions might not be realistic. Also need to keep in mind that OP didn't pay his contribution either.

I think, if I were in the OPs position, I'd look for a lump sum compensation payment; it might be a lot easier for the employer to pay out a lump sum than back dating a pension by 15 years.
 
I meant to add to my previous post....

It seems to me that your first issue is to clarify exactly what the situation is/seems to be as it's a little confusing to me from this thread. Then, if you feel that you have been misled/deprived of benefits to which you should have been entitled then try to address this with the employer as part of the redundancy process. Don't be afraid to seek advice elsewhere (here, WRC site, union, legal advice etc.) and even have somebody accompany you to any meetings. If all else fails and you still think that you have a case then you can always go to the WRC.

Workplace Relations Commission

The Workplace Relations Commission gives information about your employment rights and offers meditation, advisory and conciliation services.
www.citizensinformation.ie
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
I think we should focus on the best future actions he can take, and not judge his past ones.
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The Ombudsman or the Court will have to agree who is at fault here. So it's important to clarify what action the OP took 15 years ago.

So it is necessary to assess what he did.

He appears to have never checked his payslips.
So never checked was the tax being deducted correctly.
Never checked if the correct salary was being paid.
Never checked the pension contributions.

And why? Because he forgot his PIN.

I really don't think that his employer can be held responsible here when he showed such a gross irresponsibility.

Brendan
 
The case will, I believe, rest on the employment contract.

But ultimately what we think doesn't matter, we wont be making the judgement.

I believe its worth OPs time to pursue the matter.

Do everything in writing, don't rely on phone calls.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
So it is necessary to assess what he did.
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I never argued otherwise. It's important to establish the facts but they shouldn't be used to judge him.

Brendan Burgess said:
I really don't think that his employer can be held responsible here when he showed such a gross irresponsibility.
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Brendan it's about where the balance of responsibility lies and your or my own subjective view is not really relevant. How the WRC would view this is the issue. My own limited knowledge would suggest that at least some responsibility lies on the shoulders of the employer as, based on the facts provided by the OP, he signed a contract to authorise certain deductions which were never made. Payslips are not always simple to understand as they use jargon and abbreviations and there are very few people willing and able to double check what their employer is doing. The obligation is very heavily on the employer to ensure that employees are correctly paid.

Getting back on topic:

anbodearg said:
It was cover for death in service, but not actually saving for a pension.
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I can't see how an employee contribution of 4.5% was only for a death in service benefit. That sounds far too high for that kind of cover. To be this sounds more like a DC pension fund.

This is a tricky one. Even if the employer is fully at fault and has to compensate the OP there is still 15 years of pension fund growth that's been missed. Should that be reimbursed too?

OP should speak to a solicitor.
 
Yeah the sums of money here are large, possibly up to the price of a new house large, so the OP should seek legal advice from someone specialising in employment law. The contract (assuming it says what the OP says it says) seems clear enough and unless the OP opted out and the comany can prove this, one would expect that some element of responsibility lies with the employer.

OP: Do you have any payslips at all that you can read, to see if there are deductions on it?
 
The contract says exactly that. I took a screenshot of the contract, and typed-in exactly what was written.
I never opted-out of the pension. I assumed I was in the pension.

According to HR, I would/should have been given a form to sign when I joined to opt-in.
As they didn't receive this form back from me, I didn't opt-in.
I have no recollection of this, and there is no record of this.
It was in 2007. The HR manager is no longer with the company.
The HR records don't go back that far 'due to GDPR'.

I have a few annual pension statements which I received from Irish Life.
I called Irish Life, and they confirmed that I was on the pension.
But then HR afterwards confirmed that the 'pension' was the 'death in service' one, and not the regular pension.

I did definitely check my payslips. Over time I stopped checking them regularly.
And then after a while I just checked my bank statement.
 
This looks like a case of misunderstandings, more in your case though. You assumed you were part on the regular pension as we know it.

Rushing to solicitors, contacting the wrc seems to be the default of us as a nation. The Op has responsibilities here, looking for scapegoat’s is a real Irish thing I believe.

That’s the general consensus here, who can I blame for my mistake.

I can sympathise with the op, give the emotional support, suggest ways of blaming others, or, call it out.
 
anbodearg said:
I have a few annual pension statements which I received from Irish Life.
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OK. These were probably badly laid out so it might not have been obvious to you that you were not in a pension scheme as we know it.

However, they should have been clear enough for you to question them.

anbodearg said:
I did definitely check my payslips. Over time I stopped checking them regularly.
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So you checked your payslip but did not notice that they were not deducting anything from your pension? That just seems a bit odd.
Why did you not alert them "Hey - why are you not deducting 4.5% of my salary for my pension?"

And what about your colleagues? Did you have a chat with them about how the pension fund was doing?

It is hard to remember exactly what happened 17 years ago. But assuming your memory is correct, and that you were not put in the pension scheme due to an oversight, the company should make a goodwill gesture and pay you the equivalent of what they would have contributed had you been in the scheme.

However, you should not get anything for money which you should have contributed but didn't.

Brendan
 
LS400 said:
Rushing to solicitors, contacting the wrc seems to be the default of us as a nation. The Op has responsibilities here, looking for scapegoat’s is a real Irish thing I believe.
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Agree.

First of all, try to sort it out with your employer.

Brendan
 
From my own experience in my company HR and other staff did audit and review which staff were or were not contributing to a pension and acted on it. So HR have a significant responsibility in this. They normally don’t do stuff unless they have to in my experience.

The power of a written signed contract is very important, unless HR can produce the opt out/ opt in form signed by the OP then this is also their responsibility. If they could perhaps show that those who joined the company 6 months prior and after the OP joined either all signed an opt in and were added to the pension or an opt out and were not added it would strengthen their hand. But using GDPR as an excuse not to maintain pension records is daft as there is a need for these records for decades.

Just because the previous HR manager is gone from the company does not mean that they are absolved of responsibility.

And if the OP was paying 4.5 % salary into a scheme why would he not think it was a pension scheme as laid out in his contract - unless he got specific information from his company saying otherwise at inception.

Yes, there is some responsibility on the OP but many many people do not understand the first thing about pensions, so why assume that the OP needed a certain level of financial knowledge at all?
 
LS400 said:
Rushing to solicitors, contacting the wrc seems to be the default of us as a nation.
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Just to be clear, I think I'm the only one to mention the WRC here and I did so in the context of the original poster asking for information relevant to their situation. I did also mention that a WRC case might be an option if all else (in particular trying to deal with the issue through discussion with the employer) fails and if there's a legitimate gripe here (and I still can't tell if that's the case because the whole issue seems to be a bit confusing). I don't think that this constitutes "rushing" into anything. In any case, the WRC is there for a reason and it's a legitimate route in some cases even if some people like to malign people who use it.
 
And also just to be clear, @ClubMan , bandying the suggesting the involvement of the wrc, has the similar effect to the employer of the insurance company paying out once the word “solicitor” is mentioned.

All to often, while the WRC is a valuable asset to a wronged employee, others use it as a weapon.
 
LS400 said:
And also just to be clear, @ClubMan , bandying the suggesting the involvement of the wrc, has the similar effect to the employer of the insurance company paying out once the word “solicitor” is mentioned.
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I don't really know what you're trying to say here. It all seems a bit garbled.
LS400 said:
All to often, while the WRC is a valuable asset to a wronged employee, others use it as a weapon.
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I suggested that the OP contact the WRC ICS to see if they can offer any info/advice.
Not sure how that counts as weaponising the WRC?

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