losing points "without knowing"

"The whole idea of the PP system was to slow down peopl

er,

Dont think you are right about that.

Its more to do with reducing road accidents

A very small percentage of all road accidents are caused by excessive speed.

Re: "The whole idea of the PP system was to slow down p

As a matter of interest does anyone know if the Gardai use mobile speed detectors mounted in their cars ?

I got pulled over once in New Zealand and the guy told me he saw me coming towards him (as he was driving) and I was doing (say) 105kmph in a 100kmph zone approaching a 70kmph zone.

He said he flicked on the rear detector after we passed and I hadn't slowed down enough for his liking so he turned around and came back after me.

This type of thing would be great (except no doubt it would be challenged in the courts here because of lack of calibration of Garda vehicles or something) and would allow mobile patrols to catch people on the back roads that everyone seems to agree need to be monitored more.

z

Re: "The whole idea of the PP system was to slow down p

Does anyone know if that spray you can get to hide your reg plates from speed cameras is illegal here?

Re: "The whole idea of the PP system was to slow down p

Its more to do with reducing road accidents

Click to expand...

The Goal is to make driving unpleasant. If possible they'd like to force drivers onto public transport.

Why are speed checks focused on Dublin's very safe Commuter routes? Because these are the motorists that they want to get onto Buses.

Why can you do 100mph on a rural backroad with immunity?
Because they don't care about speed, and there's no public transport in rural Ireland, so let them drive whatever way they want.

Why do we have a very stringent NCT test despite the fact that the vehicle is responsible for a minute percentage of accidents? (I'm pretty sure being unable to remove a hub cap has never caused a single accident).

It's shameful that they use the tragedy of road accidents as a cover for an anti-car agenda. They are quite literally allowing people to die needlessly on dangerous roads, and then using those deaths to hound drivers off of safe roads.

As time goes on and people see that they only care about catching city commuters, the accident levels will creep back.
This has increase has already started in fact.

It's depressing really.

-Rd

Re: "The whole idea of the PP system was to slow down p

So every Garda is anti-car? The National Safety Council are anti-car? The Irish Insurance Federation are anti-car?

Come on - give us a break!

Re: "The whole idea of the PP system was to slow down p

I didn't say any of those are anti-car. If you're going to put words in my mouth you could make a bit more effort to make them plausable.

I said the government is Anti-Car.

It's the government that introduced the NCT and set the parameters for it's operation.

It's the government that is adding 60 more offenses to the penalty points system. (I can't even think of 60 dangerous things you can do with a car).

It's the government that put a spokesman on the radio saying that they had no obligation to tell people that they had points, and that when the new offenses were added there was every chance that a motorist could be disqualified on one stop by the gardai. (He didn't say this last point with regret, it was almost with glee).

The National Safety Council and the Irish Insurance Federation support the Penalty Points System.
So do I. But I don't support the ham fisted half arsed implementation that this government has introduced (And seems happy with). I think it's counter productive and ultimately will cause people to change their behaviour and drive on more dangerous roads.

I'm not surprised it was half arsed of course. I'm convinced the seats in the cabinet room are only big enough for one cheek.

The AA (as close as we have to a motoring Lobby) has repeatedly criticised the governments handling of motoring issues from VRT to Tolling and Speed Checks to Insurance. There is virtually no area on which this government can be said to have rewarded the €4bn per year that the motorist contributes to the exchequer.

As an example I'm fairly certain that they will make it an offence worthy of points to have a bulb not working. Now a bulb can go at any time, so the fair thing to do would be to make it an offence not to carry a replacement. If a garda spots a blown bulb you should have the opportunity to replace it there and then. I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that simply having the blown bulb will be the offence.

Policy 1 is "when in doubt choose the option this pisses off the motorist most".

Policy 2 is "It doesn't matter if this measure will make our roads safer, will it make them more unpleasant or costly to the motorist?"

-Rd

?

I wouldn't mind about the Government being so anti-car, if there was an alternative. So what are we meant to do after we've been hounded from our cars? - How do we get to work?

Re: ?

That is an interesting point. If we were all to abandon our car for a day it would be interesting to see if the working country would grind to a halt. I imagine that it would. I would have no way to get to work myself. Even in the cities which have some measure of public transport I would imagine that the system wouldn't be able to cope.

But I guess this problem is the same world wide. Democracy demands solutions for the short term. So instead of trying to come up with a long term safer and more efficient alternative for the car we are punished daily for using the car (Insurance, road tax, fuel tax, tolls, sh*t roads, and terrible application of the penalty point system, etc.) even though we are presented with no alternative.

There will always be people killed on the roads. Fact. We can try bring it down to the world average, but we will never stop it, because no matter what speed you go there will be bad drivers, careless drivers, freak incidents, cows etc....

Re: "The whole idea of the PP system was to slow down p

Why do we have a very stringent NCT test despite the fact that the vehicle is responsible for a minute percentage of accidents? (I'm pretty sure being unable to remove a hub cap has never caused a single accident).

Click to expand...

I saw a person geting failed for this in Nenagh.
I got failed because my indicator light wasn't yellow enough. It was working fine but I had to get it changed.
The penalty points system like most things in Ireland was probably a good idea but it was taken to extremes again, no common sense and has become a money making scheme, with quoto's for cops etc.
Example of the stupidity of same a cousin of mine was stoped on a roundabout to check that her daughter had her seatbelt on- (she had) reason the girl had long hair and they couldn't see the belt, there was dam near a major pileup because of it.

Re: ?

If we were all to abandon our car for a day it would be interesting to see if the working country would grind to a halt.

Click to expand...

This is precisely why car free day is nothing of the sort. Cities around the world block off one or two streets for a street party or whatever. If that consitutes car free then Dublin has been car free for years, half the city seems to be closed off at one time or another.

Some Facts that they haven't quite grasped.

1. Traffic will expand to fill the space provided. If you get people to leave their cars at home that will make driving easier for those who drive, which will encourage others to drive, until you get back to equilibrium.

2. There is not a traffic problem in Dublin, there is a planning problem. E.g. We build motorways to get the traffic moving, around the city, then we build shopping centers so the motorways become routes to the shopping rather than a bypass around it.

WHY on earth is Ireland's biggest shopping center being built in Dundrum, and area that is already a congestion nightmare?

3. We repeatedly find that broken traffic lights on certain junctions result in traffic moving more freely. Once this has been discovered, those lights should be removed permanently. Unless the goal is to cause congestion.

4. PARK AND RIDE.

5. If you want people to obey the rules of the road then a good place to start would be having the Gardai set a good example.

6. Tell us what the laws actually are. We get press releases saying you have to carry your drivers licence with you at all times, but if you ask a garda he'll tell you you can produce it within 10 days. Incidently If you ask a FF Junior Minister he'll say he doesn't know what the rule is (at least the one I asked didn't know). We have so many laws that chances are you are breaking one without knowing it.

7. Secretly taking someones picture while they do 100mph doesn't slow them down. By the time they receive notification they may have killed someone. Make most Speed checks highly visible and put them at dangerous points on the roads.

8. Motorists will respond with goodwill to any system that is seen to be both fair and effective. The overwhelming response to Penalty Points has been "Good Idea, badly implemented".

9. Motorists pay more than their fair share for the privelage of using the road. Talking about motorists as if they are some sort of parasite stealing roadspace from cyclists, pedestrians and public transport users us unfair and unjustified. It is the motorist who paid dearly to build those roads. If you want to bitch and moan start paying your fair share. Cyclists are guests on the roads we build. This evening tap on the window of a car and say thanks. A little gratitude wouldn't hurt.

*** Before Brendan flames me, the last one was semi-tongue in cheek. ****

-Rd

Re: Big fat rant!

Have to agree with DaltonR here - it is definitely not a traffic problem, certainly around Dublin, it is most definitely a planning problem. The M50 toll bridge is by far the worst offender when it comes to poor planning in Co.Dublin - up until recently, 2 lanes (each way) spreading into 5 or 6 within 100 yards of the toll booths - complete idiocy!! Now we have 3 lanes each way across the toll bridge with very little effect on traffic build up at peak times. If they had of simply moved the toll bridge closer to the Blanchardstown exit there probably would have been no problem at all as they would have the room to gradually increase the number of lanes approaching the booths over a greater distance. Anyway, I realise this is slightly off the issue.

Just as a matter of interest, has anyone on this thread been to Geneva in the past few years?? Almost nobody breaks the speed limit around Geneva as the police have small speed cameras attached to almost every set of traffic light (according to a Swiss taxi driver I spoke to there).

On the public transport issue, another reason why people are so unwilling to use it is that not only is it a dreadful service in a lot of areas (granted, some areas have a very good service), but with the cost of having a car in this country (tax, insurance etc), most people feel they need to make use of it daily to get some return on the relative cost, especially young drivers which will of course lead to more accidents on our roads.

As for the road safety authority I really have to say that I think they are doing a very poor job. What have they REALLY done to combat road deaths in this country, I mean in a practical sense... dangerous, narrow country roads with poor or no road markings are generally 60mph zones, even where they pass close to houses, driveways, gates etc - more often than not, a lot of these roads will have high ditches or walls with blind corners, not to mention the STATE of some of these roads!!! Graffic (and expensive I'm sure) add campaigns will not deter drivers on our roads from speeding, driving dangerously, or drink driving, at least not for very long.

Re: Big fat rant!

Jem,

The lack of common sense comes from the people who make the laws and run the country. I know you're proud of FF's record but you have to admit the last few years have been a seriously worrying display of utter stupidity.

NCT: Good idea ruined by stupid implementation.
Penalty Points: Good idea ruined by stupid implementation.
Clamping: Good idea ruined by stupid implementation.
M50: Good idea ruined by stupid implementation.
M50 Toll: Bad idea made worse by stupid implementation.

I won't get into non motoring muck ups like E-Voting, Decentralisation, Benchmarking, Credit Card Tax. Spending millions building holpitals and then not bothering to actually open them and run them.

I can live with corrupt governments, I can live with governments whose ideology is different to mine.
But I can't abide needlessly stupid government.

If someone could explain to me why our government adopts the needlessly stupid implementation of ideas rather than the obviously better way, and why they refuse to change when the problems with their stupid way becomes apparent.
I could live out the rest of my life in peace and contentment.

Why aren't we putting them on the spot more and forcing them to answer these questions.

-Rd

Re: Big fat rant!

To be honest I wouldn't blame the govt. for everything rather the permanent govt. should sholder the blame for a quite a lot.
I would doubt it a govt minister got involved in the nitty gritty of what would be tested or not and what would = a fail.
It was the garda comm who stoped the margine of error for sppeding. While it was i would admit mini brennan who talked about all the "offences" causing pp's
Clamping- clamp them all. seriously i have no idea whatever about this good or bad.
M50 from memory it was designed fro a far smaller amount of cars than currently. the "experts" "calculated " what would be needed and they were way wrong.
m50 toll m- see m50 problems.

there are a lot of other areas that the govt and cc can be blamed for the SB being one, the all kids out of pubs by 9pm etc but we will not go there in this tread
with regard to the health service I can understand the anger but the amount of money being thrown at it is massive but it is a bottomless pit. an example: my wife was in hospital due to Arthritis in harolds cross she was in for 2 weeks, got bill yesterday $4700.(note thank God for bupa) the accommodation share of this was €3200 approx this imho is crazy.