Losing deposit on apt in Berlin: allowed someone stay there rent free - subletting?

Hi we've come into a situation where we are losing our deposit in Berlin because we let someone who is not listed on the contract stay in our apartment over there which is apparently the same as Subletting.

We received no money for this but the landlord is saying we sublet it? Is this correct?

Im pretty sure in Ireland you have to receive money for it to be a sublet but not sure about German law.

Re: Subletting

Please post in the correct forum/subforum.

moved from askaboutlaw to overseas property investment.

Re: Losing deposit on apt in Berlin: allowed someone stay there rent free - sublettin

What does it say in the contract? How can you prove you didn't receive any payment or other consideration?

Re: Losing deposit on apt in Berlin: allowed someone stay there rent free - sublettin

pAnTs said:

Im pretty sure in Ireland you have to receive money for it to be a sublet but not sure about German law.

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You have answered your own question. Different countries, different laws. Find a German solicitor or ask the Germain embassy for the up to date procedure.

Re: Losing deposit on apt in Berlin: allowed someone stay there rent free - sublettin

Attitudes to subletting differ in various places. Many Irish landlords relaxed about.

In the USA some states have local byelaws against overcrowding which are strictly enforced.

Don't know about Germany. As one poster has already suggested the German Embassy there have a list of English speaking lawyers. From previous experience of Germans they tend to have written agreements for most situations, keep to them themselves and expect you to keep to them.

Re: Losing deposit on apt in Berlin: allowed someone stay there rent free - sublettin

Have you guys got Rechtschutz? Everyone who moves to Germany should almost certainly consider getting this basic legal protection insurance before they sign any contracts. I'd also encourage renters to join the local Mieterverein before they start renting, and to keep this post balanced, landlords should probably join a Vermieterverein. A Mieterverein membership costs around 50-100 euros per year, but will be worth a whole lot more to you if there's ever a dispute. And my anecdotal experience is that there are often disputes between tenants and landlords in Germany.

IMHO You need to get a local lawyer involved and/or get in contact with the local mieterverein (http://www.berliner-mieterverein.de/) if you are going to make any headway on this. Writing letters or calling yourself will likely have little or no impact.

If it's as you say, guests are always allowed: even if they stay 6-8 weeks. You do not have to inform the landlord in advance, nor do you have to get his permission for the guest. See attached document in German explaining this. It's the little bit marked 2. Gäste

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There's also a similar case saying that you don't actually have to be present yourself (i.e. your centre of personal interests does not still have to be the flat if you are temporarily working elsewhere whilst retaining any previous right to sublet) as long as you still have a room available for your own use.

[broken link removed]

Re: Losing deposit on apt in Berlin: allowed someone stay there rent free - sublettin

thanks a million Martin, we've found a German Lawyer so Ill pass this onto him as he seems uncertain about where we stand on this. Thanks again