lorry drivers

I've often noticed cuddly toys on the dashboards of lorries, or hanging from their rear-view mirror. Could it be that lorry-drivers are now collecting these sick 'trophies' from all the women and children they knock down? I know I've seen all the evidence I need...

More seriously - Asimov's quite right. I drove a motorbike (safely) for ten years, and one of the most valuable things I took away from it was the golden rule of always assuming that the car/lorry/bus in front of you is driven by a homicidal maniac, and anticipating appropriately. If I saw my own dear mother coming down the road towards me, I'd keep out of her way!

[Please don't tell my Mum on me... ]

...one of the most valuable things I took away from it was the golden rule of always assuming that the car/lorry/bus in front of you is driven by a homicidal maniac, and anticipating appropriately...

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Of course it's much easier to avoid being killed by a homicidal maniac than it is to avoid killing a suicidal maniac.

-rd

Re: suicidal maniacs?

...touché, daltonr.

My-cousin-the-(real)-doctor used to refer to us more gently as 'donors'...

road-deaths

Seems there's an emerging consensus here that increased numbers of cyclists killed in RTA's comes from a combination of deteriorating work-conditions and increased pressure to speed up on lorry-drivers plus the irresponsibility of many cyclists. Just to put something straight - there is no 'test' or standard for cyclists in the UK! Here, as in Ireland, cyclists do not have to pass any tests of roadworthiness (indeed most of them use the pavements whenever it suits them) and they do not carry insurance. So when they knock over a fail elderly pedestrian or cause an articulated lorry to crash if the other party is not fully covered for third-party liability they are in deep trouble as the medical bills roll in!

Lorry-drivers are doing a job and earning a living and not an easy one by any means. Surely instead of accepting the inevitability of higher road-deaths there needs to be some real thinking about responsibility across the board? This could be introduced at the level of the driving-schools and the driving-test. Instead of competence to hold and licence and drive being dependent solely on knowing how to drive a vehicle, the emphasis should be on how to manage oneself and vehicle in the context of crowded highways and fallible human nature. I do very much like the Freisland experiment. They recently decided in the North of Holland to take away all road markings, speed-limits and artificial rules. Road-traffic accidents have dropped to practically zero because road-users have to engage with the moment-by-moment environment.

Just to put something straight - there is no 'test' or standard for cyclists in the UK!

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Yes there is, I wouldn't have said if there wasn't. It is called the Cycling Proficiency Test and, like I said in my post, it should be mandatory.

I am both a cyclist and a motorist, cycling every day into work.

I am faced with the option of cycling down the city centre quays on the footpath, or running the gauntlet with cars, buses, trucks and motorbikes. I will always choose the path when I can, but I'll slow down if there are pedestrians coming towards me. Its much safer for me, as I've had too many cars making a left turn on top of me, doors opened in front of me, cars with no brake lights stopping suddenly etc. I'll always use lights on the bike from dusk onwards too, simply because I know from driving myself how invisible a cyclist is at night. Where possible, I will also jump the lights if there's no traffic coming, simply to be away from the traffic as the queued up cars pull away when the lights go green. Again, its primarily because its safer for me...

Its a pity as 99% of motorists are courteous, leave a bit of room, and keep an eye out for bikes on the inside, but its the 1% that you have to watch out for...

The reality is that it is just not safe to have motorised traffic sharing lanes with cyclists. A minor motor accident (i.e. a fender bender) is much more serious for a cyclist if they are involved.

It still shocks me too see cyclists tearing down the footpath with plenty of pedestrians, kids etc. around. Bikes without brakes (!), without lights, and the old cycle-courier favourite, run through the lights when people have the green man to cross ...

Even though the Dutch example is great, where bikes have right of way in the bike lanes, there are still a shocking number of cyclists killed by trams in Amsterdam ...

Cycling Proficiency Test

Just to put something straight - there is no 'test' or standard for cyclists in the UK!

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I agree with geegee, there is (or at least was) a Cycling Proficiency Test in the UK - I did it when I was younger, although as far as I can remember it was unfortunately voluntary rather than mandatory!

In Switzerland, where I lived for a few years, the test is mandatory and cyclists are obliged to learn the highway code and will be fined if caught in breach of it!

Cyclists also have to pay road tax, which I agree with as they are after all road users and the new cycle lanes in Ireland have cost a fortune to put in place.

Cycling instruction in Switzerland starts in primary school and is ingrained in children from a very early age and this is one of the reasons the roads are safer for them and there are fewer accidents.

Re: Cycling Proficiency Test

Since we've got on to the highway code, from [broken link removed]

Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions can be dangerous. You should always reduce your speed when

* the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends

[broken link removed]
Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular
..
* take the road and traffic conditions into account. Be prepared for unexpected or difficult situations, for example, the road being blocked beyond a blind bend.

I can't see where it says "in the case where most drivers drive faster than they should when the road layout presents hazards, then other drivers should feel free to do the same".

I get annoyed when I see people zooming around corners, even though obeying the speed limits. fully expecting the road to be clear. Warning triangles are an aid but what happens when the car has just conked out and the driver is rushing to get the triangle out of the boot.

This does not mean slowing down to 10mph the reduction in stopping distance between 40 and 30mph is a useful 13 meters. Most drivers are pretty good at judging how quick to approach traffic lights to either stop or drive on if they change, similar judgment could be used for selecting a speed at corners.
People are eager to lecture cyclists but just having them knowing the highway code won't help when our drivers evidently don't.

(By the way I'm not and never have been a cyclist, and do not speak for cyclists).

Lorries and Warning triangles !

Interesting debate guys.

I agree that truck drives are generally a courteous bunch and there are more aware of the surrounding when driving - unlike most car drivers, cyclists and motorcyclists.

Part of the problem is that other motorists are not fully aware of how trucks have to manouver, e.g. swinging wide when turning.

Pictures and information on trucks and how other road users must act around them should be included in The Rules of the Road ..........and be part of car, motorbike tests.

Re: Warning Triangles
Lets get real here !!

How many Irish car drivers actually carry one ???
Very few I would reckon !

.............or if they did, would think to use it at an accident site ?!!
Switching on their hazard lights would be the height of it !!

(I carry one, BTW !)