Looking for a builder- what should I ask him?

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pudzer

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Hi!

We're just about finished our construction drawings (we have planning) and we're about to go to about 5 builders for quotes.

Looking foradvice on what I should be asking them for e.g. the obvious ones are the estimated time from start to end of construction, cost and when can they start. Should I ask them to break the cost down per component of construction e.g. plastering/electrician/windows/doors, etc. or is that too detailed?
I assume that I should I ask for references also - any advice here would be very welcome.
Any thing else that I should consider?

Any help is much appreciated.
Pudzer
 
Pudzer,

In order to have the 5 builders all pricing to the same spec you would prob be best of to get a bill of quantities drawn up by a quantity surveyor. This will allow you to itemise the bill into each work element ie substructure, wall completion, roof structure and finishes. It also means that by speaking with the QS you can get as much detail as possible into the spec and save on variations at a later date.
By getting a complete price like this it will allow you to track the costs for each stage.
The alternative is to get the 5 builders to price for a builders finish based on the drawings, and subcontract the rest of the finishing work.
 
builders finish would be plastered walls and screeded floor. Kitchen and bathrooms are excluded but some put in an allowance for these.
 
Builders finish generally, Windows in first fix plumping, carpentry and electrics complete, roof complete and plastering complete.

Remaining floors if subfloor, second fix carpentry architraves and skirting, second fix wiring, second fix plumbing and all decorating kitchens sanitary ware. etc
 
I'm not an expert but have lived through a build - you should have detailed drawings done by your architect and engineer showing in detail what is to be quoted for (every tiny detail down to how you want the carpentry to be finished, plumbing details, insulation, windows, flooring - everything) and to be really safe get a quantity surveyor to look over the quotes (an architect may have one he uses regularly). These are all extra costs for you now but well worth it in the end unless you're very knowledgeable in the area of building yourself. In my experience if you leave anything out at the quote stage they really nail you for it during the build.

Has anyone you know had building done so you can get their builder to quote, from my experience builders will promise you the world at quote time but not always follow through.

Estimated time of building means nothing in my opinion - ours was 10-12 weeks - it took over a year. Very hard to hold them to it.

Ask the builders how many jobs they have running at one time and whether or not there will be a foreman onsite all the time or if he'll be trying to run a few projects at once. This was the main reason for delays and shody work with us - builder prioritising other job.
 
THank you for your replies.

I have called a few QS and the quotes I'm getting to do a 'Bill of Quantities' has ranged from €2,000 to €4,000. Are they for real?

Am I asking the right questions here?!!!
 
2k would be a small price to pay for getting a degree of certainty in the price. Id imagine you are looking at spending 250k (?) on building the house the more prepared you are now the better. Its up to you (and your arch) to determine the finishes and spec and it really will pay off in the long run. When you get your 5 quotes back how are you going to analyise them? How will you who has priced what. The builder will price the minimum he can initially and to the minimum spec. He is hardly going to put in stainless steel taps when he can go with something from chadwicks and it is up to you spec this at the start
 
As far as I know there is a going rate for most aspects of a build and the QS will make sure you're being charged close to this. We knew nothing about building and were being asked to make major decisions on the build every day - we hired a QS well into the job and could then relax about not getting ripped off (any more than we had been already!). Money flies out of your hands when building so spending 2K now to avoid overspending later on is worth it I think.

Talk to your architect though - maybe he'll consult with a QS as part of his responsibilities. You really shouldnt be in the position you're in of trying to decide what to get builders to quote for though unless you are a building expert yourself. IMHO there should be a professional dictating whats quoted for.
 
they bill of quanitities may result in you recieving prices 10% less than it would without......
with a bill of quantites you could also just ask the builder for labour costs and try to provide the materials yourself, thus keeping an eye on exactly whats going into your house.....

why do you think 2k to 4k is an 'unreal' price?? you will probably end up spending 5 times that price on a plasterer......
 
Okay, maybe I'm off the mark - it just seems that before I even ask the builders for a quote that I've been handing out €'000's for this that and the other thing - guess I'll just have to get used to it!

My architect is completely useless so, I suppose I'd better get this job done right.

I thought I read on another post that a hardware company in Wexford would breakdown your material costs for about €170 - that's why I was surprised initially but you guys ahve brought me back down to earth - thanks
 
Get a detailed specification done up by engineer. From the five quotes you will get an idea of current pricing. In my view dont think you need a qs for a housebuild. Most builders quotes are done by a qs and some are happy to give you full breakdown. Unless you are going down the direct labour route there doesnt seem to be a need. A detailed specification and a contract checked by your solicitor which will set out amongst other things the build period, most builders will require 12 months. If I had my way again I would set out some kind of service agreement. We do have regular review meetings which can be useful. Best of Luck.
 
I have to disagree, get the Architect to spec by all measn but how will you know if you are getting value? 5 builders could have 5 very different quotes for exactly the same thing, the architect is not qualified to analysis figures or put a bill of quantites to gether.
As syd has said you will probably end up paying a plasterer 15k but because people cant physically see the work of a QS they think its bad value
 
Estimated time of building means nothing in my opinion - ours was 10-12 weeks - it took over a year. Very hard to hold them to it.

Very good point.I experienced this some years ago.If they have other jobs
on the go they simply go missing for 2/3 days while they presumably try to keep someone else happy.The result is your job drags on much longer then it should.
 
Pudzer, you sound about as bewildered by the whole process as we were starting out. You may get by without a QS as mentioned below but it will mean you have to do a lot more analysis and research yourself and personally we didn't feel qualified to assess quotes ourselves. Also you have to be sure builders are including everything in their quote so stuff doesn't have to be added on (at a high cost) later on and for this you need the detailed plans from the architect(design, building regulations) and engineer (structural issues that architects can't tackle e.g. structural supports). The QS isn't qualified to make these design and stuctural decisions but makes sure the quote reflects the plans correctly. The quotes you receive should then have a price for every element of the build including materials, labour, insurance, contingency etc.

A far as contracts go - are they really any use? Others can advise better than me here......unless you incorporate some financial disincentive to running over the projected build time theres not much you can do to hold a builder to a finish date. We were advised that in the current environment builders won't even bother quoting for jobs with such restrictions and if they do they'll make sure they price it higher to cover any potential losses for themselves. Apparently you and the builder automatically enter into a contract when you accept their quote so they are bound to complete it at least.

Can your architect recommend a builder - if theres a relationship there the builder may be more reliable.
 
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I would like to clarify something re the involvement of a QS. Is the QS role to provide a full list of what is required in the build (but without any costs) and this then forms the basis of what goes out to the tendering builders to price?

m
 
it can be both mickeyg....

you can have a QS just prepare a bill of quantites of everything in the build so that all tenderers are quoting for the same thing....
or you can actually engage him to price up all the materials and labour himself..

however i have found with the latter than the prices are always very high... this is because the QS cannot take into account economies that the tenderer can.. ie labour costs may be lower for the contractor, dediacted trade costs may be lower, discounts may be available to the contractor etc....
 
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