G
Goathland
Guest
Can he do this?
Any semi-competent counterfeiter can find ways round those pens, they are far from reliable
No trader is obliged to give change (although a business would not survive for long if that were implemented as policy). If you owed your butcher €200 or more and tendered a €200 note in settling your debt, the butcher does not really have the right to refuse.
How frequently do people see €200 notes? I think I only ever handled one once. ( was in a gift card I got from a relative ). I also saw a German holidaymaker in Greece last year trying unsuccessfully to pay for car hire with a €500 note and he tried a couple of adjoining shops to change it down for him with no success either. I mean who goes on holiday with notes that size. Was he cutting down weight on a Ryanair flight or something.
billythefish
Registered User
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- 159
I'd be mortified handing a €200 note to a small local shop...
Why mortified? I'd be thrilled!
Quick answer is no he doesn't.
Legal reason - a contract or debt does not exist between you & the butcher until he accepts payment, therefore he can choose whether or not to accept any form of payment.
However if you had an account with the butcher and paid at the end of the month and the amount owing was over €200, he would have to accept the note as you are paying by legal tender for aa debt owed.
The practical reason is the €200 forgeries are excellent and even look as if the silver strip is in it. Paper quality is excellent. Also the central bank of ireland does not issue €200 notes except by request.
As to checking for forgeries - the only thing forgers have not be able to copy is making the braille marks at the top of the notes - where the bank id marking is such as BCE ECB EZB EKT EKP
Rub your fingers gently over this area and you will feel the braille - with a bit of practice you can feel the braille on even the grubbiest of notes.
Legal reason - a contract or debt does not exist between you & the butcher until he accepts payment, therefore he can choose whether or not to accept any form of payment.
However if you had an account with the butcher and paid at the end of the month and the amount owing was over €200, he would have to accept the note as you are paying by legal tender for aa debt owed.
The practical reason is the €200 forgeries are excellent and even look as if the silver strip is in it. Paper quality is excellent. Also the central bank of ireland does not issue €200 notes except by request.
As to checking for forgeries - the only thing forgers have not be able to copy is making the braille marks at the top of the notes - where the bank id marking is such as BCE ECB EZB EKT EKP
Rub your fingers gently over this area and you will feel the braille - with a bit of practice you can feel the braille on even the grubbiest of notes.
We seem to have issues with large denomination notes here. When I'm on holidays in Austria or Germany the ATMs regularly hand out €100 notes. The first time I tried to use one in a shop I thought "oh no, this guy is going to grumble and give out (in German) because I'm giving him a €100 for €15 worth of good". Not a bit of it. It seems to be just an Irish thing for retailers not to accept large notes.
I had a couple of €500 notes on me before, but (long story) it was in New Zealand, so I just brought it to the nearest bank branch, converted it to NZ$ and went on my way. I just just imagine some poor old Kiwi heading over to Europe with my pair of €500 notes and getting nowhere when trying to spend it in shops.
I can see why retailers would be unwilling to accept large notes if there is a forgery concern. If I sell something and take in a dud €50 then I'm down €50 and the cost of the goods. If someone pays for the goods with a dud €200 then I'm down a lot more. Refusing to take the larger notes reduces the downside for the retailer *if* it turns out to be a dud.
z
I had a couple of €500 notes on me before, but (long story) it was in New Zealand, so I just brought it to the nearest bank branch, converted it to NZ$ and went on my way. I just just imagine some poor old Kiwi heading over to Europe with my pair of €500 notes and getting nowhere when trying to spend it in shops.
I can see why retailers would be unwilling to accept large notes if there is a forgery concern. If I sell something and take in a dud €50 then I'm down €50 and the cost of the goods. If someone pays for the goods with a dud €200 then I'm down a lot more. Refusing to take the larger notes reduces the downside for the retailer *if* it turns out to be a dud.
z
Actually, no. We're both wrong.
If I sell you something that retails for €1 and you pay with a dud €50 note then I give you €49 in change. I'm definitely down €49, right. But I'm not down €1 for the goods I gave out, since they didn't cost me €1 to buy - probably 40c. So, I'm down €49.40 instead. Then again, my bank will probably charge me for lodging a dud note, so I'm down more again.
Lookit . . . just don't be coming into my shop with those dud €50s and we'll all be fine.
z
Bubbly Scot
Registered User
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- 493
We have a huge number of people who hand over a €50 note in our shop and apologise for not having something smaller. We'd accept €100 without too many qualms but for anything over that the cashier has to know you. That said, in a year, I've never seen anything larger than €100 note come across our counter.
CatherineB
Registered User
- Messages
- 71
Very few shops will accept them (and I mean high street stores). €100's are commonly accepted and almost no-one will a €500. All of these notes wipe out the float and a local butcher..sure his average sale is going to be what under a tenner anyway.
My store (Dunnes) takes all of the above. I've taken about 5 or 6 €500's in 2 years. NONE of these transactions were over €40. All of them were early on a weekday morning when your float (€40 in notes) is finding it tough to cope with €50's. None of the customers proffering the giant notes were grateful that they were being accepted at all OR understanding of the fact that I could not immediately furnish them with €470 odd change and had to go to the safe. Honestly! If you have such big notes, accept refusals.
My store (Dunnes) takes all of the above. I've taken about 5 or 6 €500's in 2 years. NONE of these transactions were over €40. All of them were early on a weekday morning when your float (€40 in notes) is finding it tough to cope with €50's. None of the customers proffering the giant notes were grateful that they were being accepted at all OR understanding of the fact that I could not immediately furnish them with €470 odd change and had to go to the safe. Honestly! If you have such big notes, accept refusals.
CatherineB
Registered User
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- 71
Well whatever name you have for the massive amount of English stores that line our streets so.
I rarely have problems getting 20's from ATM's. That wasn't the point in question- 50's are only annoying if you get them one after the other. ATM's are not giving out 200's, these notes absolutely kill floats as well as being highly suspect and no-one is obliged to take them.
I rarely have problems getting 20's from ATM's. That wasn't the point in question- 50's are only annoying if you get them one after the other. ATM's are not giving out 200's, these notes absolutely kill floats as well as being highly suspect and no-one is obliged to take them.
rofl. Reminds me of a very narked wife story.
A few years ago I used to get my wages out of one bank (where my company account was) and put into my personal account in another, to save hassle and clearing I used to take it in cash, Larger notes the better, so often requested €500 notes, as they are pretty and big bundles of cash makes me nervous! One time I kept a couple of these and gave them to my wife to go spend on herself as a treat. So off she went for the day to Dundrum shopping centre, which had only been around a short while at that time.
I got a call about 2 hours later. No shop in dundrum would accept them!!! She was well narked! and being a saturday no banks around to split them. No shop was willing to take the 'risk' that the notes were real or not. As so few of those large notes were around. I queried this with my bank the next week and they told me they had to order them in just for me so not many people had seen them in the branch, let alone in shops.
A few years ago I used to get my wages out of one bank (where my company account was) and put into my personal account in another, to save hassle and clearing I used to take it in cash, Larger notes the better, so often requested €500 notes, as they are pretty and big bundles of cash makes me nervous! One time I kept a couple of these and gave them to my wife to go spend on herself as a treat. So off she went for the day to Dundrum shopping centre, which had only been around a short while at that time.
I got a call about 2 hours later. No shop in dundrum would accept them!!! She was well narked! and being a saturday no banks around to split them. No shop was willing to take the 'risk' that the notes were real or not. As so few of those large notes were around. I queried this with my bank the next week and they told me they had to order them in just for me so not many people had seen them in the branch, let alone in shops.