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Not at all. I have freely admitted that I did not read the document. My vote Yes was on the following planks:
I trust our elected reps and the leaders of our society;
I most certainly mistrust Sinn Fein;
The rest of the looneys - Dana, Dunphy, Rossie, Ganly, Gaybo, Sinead (I have had an abortion) O'Connor, Vincent (I am oh so clever) Browne etc. etc. made Yes a bit of a no brainer;
I don't think it is a good idea to make enemies with Sarko/Merky/Brown et al.
And most definitely I do not want to get into bed with British fascists;
But most of all, No was never going to be allowed to stick. We are going to have to vote Yes eventually or get out. Meanwhile a No vote has completely blown our goodwill where it counts, and boy have we received it up to now and do we need it in future.
You forgot Jim CorrThe rest of the looneys - Dana, Dunphy, Rossie, Ganly, Gaybo, Sinead (I have had an abortion) O'Connor, Vincent (I am oh so clever) Browne etc. etc. made Yes a bit of a no brainer;
You forgot Jim Corr
you are dead right harchibald......our politicions and leaders are all so trustworthy and honest! walking saints..all of them.I trust our elected reps and the leaders of our society;
.
Where do you justify your notions about figures from ?
We have a 200 mile exclusive economic zone. Below is this concept defined for you :
Now to calculate the value of fish stocks depleted by our EU friends; read this document take the estimated value of fish caught in the Irish Exclusive Economic Zone for a given year, and project it back over the last 35 years.
Full credit must be given to this website
In the same period as the Irish state lost €1.4 billion in revenues from fishing, it gained €17bn in structural funds, and while it lost €11.27bn of fish from its economy (much of which would have gone on imported oil), it gained a total of €55bn from the EU.
To clarify, these were not my arguments they were your attempt at sacrasm. I was simply taking each one and making a legitimate counter argument from certain people who voted no and may have had these concerns.
One of the reasons I voted no is there all right the others I have not made an argument for.
1.The self ammending aspect of the treaty
2. Artical 188.
you are dead right harchibald......our politicions and leaders are all so trustworthy and honest! walking saints..all of them.
Gaul? As in Asterix? I'll tell Sarky on you.And you have the gaul to question why people voted no? Please. I do not see one coherent reason there why you may have voted yes.
Dude. We are giving up this income stream from fishing up for eternity so while the value of EU funds will remain static or decreasing due to our future contributions, we will still lose billions worth of fish. How is an eternal and rising fishing income worth a few years of grants ? Nobody gives nothing for nothing. We are in the EU because its in Europes best interests. Food is becoming more expensive, not less. Add to this the compound interest and the spin off value of having an actual indigeneous fishing industry independent of the whims of outsourcing and mobile multinationals and even a madman would agree this contribution to the EU is significant. And we gave this contribution to the EU when our country and economy was on its knees so let noone ever say we gave them nothing.
You voted for them to represent you and make decisions on your part. If you don't trust them your shouldn't have voted for themyou are dead right harchibald......our politicions and leaders are all so trustworthy and honest! walking saints..all of them.
obvisously the vast majority of irish people did not see fit to put their trust in the collective judgment of our wonderfull politicians! and for the record..i did not vote for this government in the last election.It is a far more sensible proposition to trust the collective judgment of the vast majority of our politicians than to fall for the paranoid ramblings of Declan Ganley.
The treaty isn't self amending. We would still need further referenda on constitutional changes. Where did people get this idea that the the Treaty is self amending and we'd never get another referendum? Libertas perhaps?
And somebody spends money on infrastructure and the only benefit is the jobs created building the infrastructure? No long term benefit? The long view need only be taken with fish?How is an eternal and rising fishing income worth a few years of grants ?
With our vast fish based wealth we could have used helicopters to transfer our fish from port to market.
Actually the Green Party published it as one of the reasons not to vote for the Treaty as well.
Add that to the fact the the Taoisach didn't read it,
Mary Coghlan didn't even know how many commissioners each Country had,
a High Court Judge couldn't explain qualified majority voting when asked,
a booklet produced by the government differed from the one produced by the referendum commission
I thought the Green Party were officially neutral on the treaty vote. Could you provide a link or more detail on what they had to say about this.
What was that about? What were the differences?
...however the potential oil/gas reserves are potentially more valuable by many multiples.
Gaul? As in Asterix? I'll tell Sarky on you.
I didn't read the document. I accepted the arguments, put forward by people whose judgement and bona fides I trust, that this was needed for the effective working of the enlarged EU.
This was reinforced by the lack of integrity (abortion, conscription etc.) in the arguments being put forward by people who I don't trust, like Sinn Fein/IRA.
A lot is made of this "did you read the document?" by the No side. The Sunday Times fairly beats Biffo up about it. Double standards here. Did anybody ask Grisly did he read the document?
Anyway this thread has taught me that reading the document in isolation would be a waste of space. One would need a week off in a Brussels library to study the whole consolidated text developped over the last 50 years.
This should never, never have been put to referendum.
The Green party were neutral but they listed reasons to vote for and against the treaty. The self ammending aspect was one of the reasons against.
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/content/download/15600/197045/file/EU_Reform_Treaty_LR_noreg.pdf
I probably phrased the booklet thing wrong. The referendum commission had to come out after saying it would have no other part to play in the referendum debate to make statements on certain items after people questioned what they said compared to what the Government were saying. To be fair they backed up the government but it just added to the general confusion.
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