Life insurance for over 80s?

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FourPawedDog

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Hi, I was wondering if anyone is aware of any of the 'more reputable companies' who offer life insurance to those over 80 years old? My Dad is 81, currently has a unit linked, whole life policy with New Ireland and is being fleeced (in my opinion!). I would like to see what alternatives might exist for him. Thanks.
 
What does he want life insurance for?

You need to get a financial advisor to review his policy and his circumstances and figure out the best approach which is probably to get rid of the life cover which is very expensive for someone in their 80s.

Brendan
 
What does he want life insurance for?

You need to get a financial advisor to review his policy and his circumstances and figure out the best approach which is probably to get rid of the life cover which is very expensive for someone in their 80s.

Brendan
Hi Brendan,

Sorry just picking this up now.

Basically, the objective of this WOL policy was for him to leave my Mam some sort of 'financial/living support' upon his death - simple as that really. Obviously the big kick to the teeth here is that he (and many, many like him) has invested so much into this WOL "product". If he stops his premium contributions, he loses it all immediately! It would appear his only options are to keep paying an extortionate premium, significantly reduce the level of cover or cash in the policy for a minuscule transfer value relative to the significant contributions made.

The sickening part too is that it turns out that the conversion option which formed part of the policy is no longer possible, as to quote the provider...
https://www.linkedin.com/company/new-ireland-assurance/ (The conditions of the Vision Plan 89 include a section Option to Effect Another Policy, however this condition specifies that the policy cannot be converted into a Term Assurance policy. This means the policy could have only converted to another Unit Linked Protection policy and as we no longer allow ULP to New Business the conversion option cannot be used.)

His premium has sky rocketed over the last couple of years. Something I have just become aware of - much to my immense annoyance needless to say. It appears an alternative similar level of cover is not available to someone over 75 generally and that his options are very limited. This of course means the insurer has him over a barrel - pure scandalous! I also understand that this type of situation is also one which is outside the scope of the Financial Ombudsman to review due to the six year rule.

Any input/experience/recommendations etc. from any readers would be really appreciated.

Thanks
 
Any input/experience/recommendations etc. from any readers would be really appreciated.

Joe Duffy on RTE had weeks of programmes on this about a year ago. From what I gathered people were confused about what the product actually was and were fooled thereby into continuing it.

If your father dies what income will your mother have and what income does she need should be the starting point.

I don't see anything scandalous. An 81 year old should have a sky rocking premium as death is around the corner (no disrespect intended)
 
Bronte - I would consider insurance companies who currently have hundreds of elderly people with these policies over a barrel (and by that I mean, little or no option but to lose virtually everything they have contributed or pay very, very significant premiums) as scandalous.

The following may be of some assistance, in spite of the Financial Ombudsman's findings between 2010 and 2014.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...of-life-insurance-policies-1.3456097?mode=amp

As we know too well in this country, sometimes scandals take time to emerge.

Further, I take offence (in spite of your assertion that no disrespect was intended) at the unhelpful tone of your comment, in particular that 'death is around the corner' for an 81 year old, I feel it was an insensitive, unhelpful and unnecessary thing to say (irregardless of the statistical probability) and I would politely request that you consider withdrawing it please.

Needless to say, this was not the kind of input/experience/recommendation etc. I was seeking.
 
Further, I take offence (in spite of your assertion that no disrespect was intended) at the unhelpful tone of your comment, in particular that 'death is around the corner' for an 81 year old, I feel it was an insensitive, unhelpful and unnecessary thing to say

Why would you take offence to someone pointing out the facts? Your father, as my own, has already passed the male life expectancy. While I'd love for my father to be around for another 30+ years, if I was considering purchasing a policy, I'd be wise to remove aspirations and emotions from the evaluation of whether any specific product offers value for money.
 
Thanks Leo - I would argue, why would someone need to point out 'as a fact' that for someone at the age of 81 'death is around the corner'? This is (statistically speaking) common knowledge isn't it - thus, how helpful was it and therefore why say it?

Rather than go back and forward on it, Im happy to have said my piece in this regard and will leave it there.

Regarding the options for a senior citizen currently with a Reviewable WOL Policy that can not be converted - if anyone has any constructive input on options (if any) that might be available, it would be much appreciated.
 
Don't really have anything constructive to add apart from repeating what Brendan says above. It is probably well worth your while getting a financial advisor to look at everything. There are plenty of decent ones on this site or there are threads with recommendations. Maybe if your parents whole financial picture is looked at, the need for this 'support' for your mother might not be necessary.

I agree that there was rampant mis-selling of these products but to be fair, they were sold in a very different period when interest rates and inflation were mid to high teens and investment returns were similar. They looked great at the time but the whole issues around 'reviews' were never considered and I don't think the risks were ever explained properly. I know the Government was meant to do a review of this last year but I haven't heard anything on it. Might be worth chasing your TD. I know the regulator in the UK has been looking closely at these as well so not sure if anything material has come out of that.

Good luck anyway....And don't mind the death merchants. 80 is the new 40!
 
Thanks Sunny - yes, I was aware that the government were to conduct a review. Hopefully their definition of the term 'review' is more palatable than that of those insurance companies who provided some of these RWOL policies.
 
@FourPawedDog
  1. Statistically, an 81-year old man in Ireland has a life expectancy of seven years.
  2. Otherwise you are falling victim to the sunk cost fallacy. What he has paid for is insurance against death in the past. He hasn't passed away so your mother hasn't needed the payout, but has had the benefit of the insurance. There isn't a pot of money that he has to keep paying into to maintain an entitlement. You need to mentally wipe the slate clean and ask yourself whether - looking forward - the insurance remains good value.
  3. How old is your mother? Does she have an own pension? What would her income be if he passes away? Without this information it's hard to know if he needs cover.
 
Hi NoRegretsCoyote

All valid points. Asking oneself whether the insurance 'remains good value' or indeed wise when all factors are considered is of course the objective.

However, apart from the relative value the policy might bring to my Mother in the event of my Fathers death, how else can the value be measured?

What other options are available to someone in this age group in terms of bench-marking this 'value'?

Typically one might measure 'value' using a variety of parameters. For those people within this cohort with these RWOL policies, it appears that this is simply not possible and the providers of same know this - hence companies who provided these specific RWOL policies have, and continue to, lay it on thick and heavy with the premiums.
 
@FourPawedDog

I don't really follow you. You need to forget about what you've paid in til now.

Without details of your parents' income now, and your mother's income in the event of your father's death, it's very hard to give advice.
 
@FourPawedDog


Without details of your parents' income now, and your mother's income in the event of your father's death, it's very hard to give advice.

Was asked this by Burgess in post 2 and by me in post 4. No response. Instead round and round we go.

And in post 10 you explained the situation starkly. Yet still around we go. I was discussing this thread with my husband. And I asked him if the money we had paid in for term insurance on a house that the mortgage is paid off on is 'lost'. He was firmely convinced it was. Took quite a bit of effort to explain that in the event of either of our deaths it would have paid out and benefitted us, but that the insurance company has to make money, and we were 'paying' for a service not 'losing' because a policy never pays out. I moved onto discussing wether we were also 'losing' out by paying for car insurance. etc etc.
 
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