Legal Fee - Miscellaneous Outlay

L

LouthMan

Guest
Hi Guys


Recieved the bill from the Solicitor, on it he has €42 for Miscellaneous Outlay
- to include telephone calls, postage, fax.


I asked for a breakdown and they said it was a standard cost.

I think that is a rip off for this !

What do you reckon ?

Thanks
 
Yea, stamps are really expensive these days.

Of course it's a rip off. We live in Ireland.

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do except pay it.
 
Ballyman said:
Yea, stamps are really expensive these days.

The going rate for a light A4 envelope on swiftpost was around €6.50 or €7.00 when I last checked. Doesn't take a whole lot of those to get to €42....

Of course if a document is lost in the post, or the recipient denies they ever received it, the customer blames the solictor for using ordinary post.
 
Standing my ground ! He needs to break it down.

I wonder if i started charging my clients for calling them would they like that ??
 
hello, would you like to be my client?
yes
good, pay me 50 cent for this call
 
LouthMan said:
Standing my ground ! He needs to break it down.

I wonder if i started charging my clients for calling them would they like that ??
Surely all businesses factor such operational costs into the margin included in the price charged for goods/services that they provide to customers?
 
Did you agree a fee with him before he commenced working for you?
Did you ask for a breakdown of that fee and what it would include?
I did this with my solicitor so when he handed us the standard bill with items like misc outlay we refused to pay as we had agreed a price with him upfront.
Just on the subject of postage and costs etc a co-worker recently went to her dentist to get a crown fitted, the dentist toom an impression of her mouth, packaged same and when she was leaving the dentist's office she was given the package to post!
 
misc outlay covers telephone calls, photocopying, postages and other petty payments. €42 is actually quite reasonable!
 
The point made above by ClubMan is still valid; these are day-to-day expenses and should be factored into the professional fee. It’s no different from having a line on the bill for rent or one for utilities.
 
Purple said:
The point made above by ClubMan is still valid; these are day-to-day expenses and should be factored into the professional fee. It’s no different from having a line on the bill for rent or one for utilities.

i have to agree that these are normal operating costs, if i have to burn a cd for a couple to bring to their wedding to i charge for that, or do i add in tolls if i'm going to drogheda, no they are part of what i take on and thats the way it should be.
 
I can see where the calls for deletion of these fees from the bill are coming from but on the other hand, when employing other professionals, posters are advised to ask for a complete breakdown between labour and outlay (e.g. builder/landscape gardener). Is it not contradictory to ask for an all-inclusive fee in other circumstances?

Rebecca
 
MissRibena - the point about the "miscellaneous petty outlays" figure is that it does not relate to a specific outlay, but is instead intended to cover general outlays not specifically billed to the client. There are two schools of thought:

1. It is just a way of getting a slightly higher fee; If a solicitor has the exact same "petty outlays" figure on every bill, he is certainly open to this accusation.
2. It is intended to allow for recoupment of extra or non-standard expense, in circumstances where the solicitor's cost recovery systems do not readily allow for itemising the expenses; for example, if there is a huge (say 400 pages) title in a sale, then copying and indexing these is perhaps above the norm; or if there is an auction and 20 different buyers want contracts faxed to their solicitors in advance; or if there is an estate being administered and a letter has to go to 20 people each time, rather than just to the executor. You get the idea.

I once worked in a U.S. law firm (in an extremely junior capacity). As a project to amuse myself, I set up the key-coding facility which came with the office photocopier (but which had not previously been used) so that photocopying jobs could be billed directly to the file. While it reeked of efficiency, it was probably not a good move, because at least some clients objected to seeing itemised copier outlays on their bill (they thought it petty - and perhaps they were right). However, if you have two almost identical transactions, one of which involves copying 50 pages, the other of which involves copying 500 pages, it does seem fair to be able to make some charge for the higher copy cost.

I tend to waver between the two schools of thought myself, so I am not going to come down in favour of either. I will simply say that there is merit in both viewpoints.
 
I worked in a couple of solicitors' offices myself so I'm familiar with the billing of clients, or was 7 or 8 years ago. There are many issues I would have with solicitor's charges but mostly to do with the "professional fee" which seemed much more of a black hole. The items that made most sense to me were the ones that were actually detailed (e.g. miscellaneous expenditure, mileage travel to court, stamp duty and land registry/probate fees etc).

Builders, plumbers etc. don't detail every screw and nut - I'm sure these must fall under miscellaneous expenses. I'd agree it's a fairly grey area in any case.

Rebecca
 
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