legal eagles doc on rte

Just wondering what other people think of this documentary on rte. I thought it gave a rare insight into the legal system in ireland. I hear that some senior barristers and lawyers are furious at the way they were portrayed. I think it is high time that the legal system is brought out of the sixteenth century and into line with other professions. There is no justification for barristers and lawyers earning huge incomes when other professionals such as doctors, teachers and engineers earn modest incomes in comparison. I think in the long run it will do the legal system good because many people have now lost respect for the system.

when other professionals such as doctors, teachers and engineers earn modest incomes in comparison.

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Dunno about the teachers, but the doctors & engineers who are worth their salt are on pretty huge incomes too.

legal eagles

doctors heal the sick
engineers build things
teachers educate

most barristers (((and estate agents - pet hate))) (im excluding solicitors who do provide some useful services to people) get rich by screwing people or the state.

they have the ultimate system in place to perpetuate the closed shop environment. if new barristers - devils dont get paid anything for 5 years after qualification, who is going to be able to do it othere than the kids with rich barrister daddies.

Re: legal eagles

Coming from the profession myself, I thought the doc was pretty boring- nothing new, nothing revelatory. A point which people seem to miss is that even after 5 years practising there are a lot of barristers who just dont earn a lot of money. Only the elite few who get to the top of the profession earn a high income. I'm a solicitor and am looking forward to hearing what they have to say about my branch of the profession.

legal eagles

I must declare an interest as I am a solicitor.

In my own experience Doctors are paid far more than solicitors. I frequently request medico-legal reports from GP's and for a paragraph or two of opinion lifted straight from already existing notes I am charged about €250.

And what about the new aristocracy? I see lots of tradespeople like plumbers, electricians, blocklayers, etc., who are paid more than I am after 6 years as a qualified lawyer.

Yes, there are some fat cats, but much of what is said about solicitors pay is a myth. I also know many barristers who might be described as "eking out a living"

Re: legal eagles

"And what about the new aristocracy? I see lots of tradespeople like plumbers, electricians, blocklayers, etc., who are paid more than I am after 6 years as a qualified lawyer."

And what about the existing aristocracy?

Ref: Court report; Galway Advertiser Newspaper 18/11/04

"Woman caught shoplifting..........bla, bla,.........her solicitor added that she had 7 children and her husband was a tradesman"

Is it just my reading of it, or was her legal representation pleading with our judiciary on the basis of her husband being "of the other, hehmm (cough) class......m'lord"

It's just that I cannot imagine him making reference to her husband's profession should her husband have been a...........solicitor for example.

Re: legal eagles

I saw one episode of the documentary in question and was shocked at the vacuity of the opinions expressed about the profession, the arguably anachronistic trappings that go with it and life in general by some of the legal students and practicing barristers interviewed. I didn't quite "get" what one of them meant when she spoke (in the context of the switch to a fulltime course in the King's Inns) of it being a good thing that people going into law be of a "certain calibre" but I have my suspicions. My sympathies are with the people who put their legal affairs in the trust of some of these cosseted snobs! :rolleyes

Re: legal eagles

What about the couple in the program allowing the RTE cameras to film them on their wedding day! Is nothing sacred or is it all just about getting your mug in the media spotlight at any cost!

What about Kyle

I think his name is Kyle, he is the guy with the D4 Northern accent, trainee or whatever. Seems to think life is terribly hard, can't seem to remove the permagrin from his face. I know a few lads who'd gladly remove that grin !

Re: What about Kyle

With Louis Copelands wig (optional accessory) prices, have Lidl or Aldi, not considered doing a once-off offer?

Re: What about Kyle

>>I didn't quite "get" what one of them meant when she spoke (in the context of the switch to a fulltime course in the King's Inns) of it being a good thing that people going into law be of a "certain calibre"

She was referring to the practice of asking for your father's occupation on the Kings Inn application forms. She didn't seem to think this was discriminatory as (according to her) they do the same thing in Trinity (!) and that this is OK anyway as it ensures that only people of a certain "calibre" enter the profession. My reaction was shock at the openness of the snobbery rather than the snobbery itself. Of course the priviliged barrister didn't seem to be aware of how elitist she was being, which made it rather amusing.

An interesting documentary which follows the would be and existing barristers around and just allows them to shoot themselves in the foot over and over again. I particularly enjoyed the pub scene where one posh lady student barrister got This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language faced over the course of an interview.

Re: What about Kyle

>I particularly enjoyed the pub scene where one posh lady student barrister got This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language faced over the course of an interview.
... and proceeded to say she enjoyed her line of work as you got to meet all sorts of unusual people, like for example a woman who has 3 children by 3 different men ... imagine!!

They all come out of the same closed shop and they write the law, they interpret the law and they administer the law.
And they are answerable to no one.
It's a good job that they come from such good backgrounds or else people might think they were a bunch of self-serving, corrupt, money grabbing snobs.

She was referring to the practice of asking for your father's occupation on the Kings Inn application forms. She didn't seem to think this was discriminatory as (according to her) they do the same thing in Trinity (!) and that this is OK anyway as it ensures that only people of a certain "calibre" enter the profession. My reaction was shock at the openness of the snobbery rather than the snobbery itself. Of course the priviliged barrister didn't seem to be aware of how elitist she was being, which made it rather amusing.

Actually, I thought that the one (above) in the pub who mentioned the hypothetical woman with three kids from three different fathers (also?) mentioned the phrase "certain calibre"? I found these and other comments more depressing than amusing... :\

No, it was the woman being interviewed with her fiance (they later got married "on the air"). He at least was of the opinion that the elitism was unfair.

Depressing rather than amusing? Yeah, you're definitely right there. It DOES amuse me though to see people unwittingly make asses of themselves (provided they deserve it).

Hi All,

Just to stick my oar in, I work the legal area and I would say that it is almost obligatory to have the Daddy-bank open for business if you are to get started as a Barrister. This is why I'm trying to be a Solicitor instead!

Even with my employer being supportive of me continuing my education, the fees for the prep courses are €300 per subject and €70 per subject for the Entrance Exams. And after I have passed those, I can look forward to trying to survive on the minimum wage of an Apprentice Solicitor for two years.

Regarding Ruth and Niall, the pair of Barristers on the documentary, I had both of them as Lecturers and have worked with Niall afterward, and I would say that ,as they both teach law on day time and evening courses in DIT, Ruth also lectures in Trinity and they are both practicing Barristers as well I don't know when they would have time to sit down and talk to the cameras! I would say in their defense that they were always helpful and accessible to their students and anyone who asked for help and that a theatrical nature is part of the job of being a Barrister which possibly would explain how they may have appeared elitist when this was never my impression of them personally.

I didn't see the program, but what alarms me most is if these people are prepared to say such elitist comments on air, what do they conceal? What do they think when they're doing their job in court? 'Here's more scum, they're guilty'

The court system needs to be made up of people from all social backgrounds. Poor people can be clever too.

To be fair to your woman I didn't feel that she was necessarily defending the fact that certain application forms request that the father's occupation be entered. Rather than she was saying that other institutions such as Trinity also do this so it wasn't peculiar to the King's Inns. I seem to recall the husband being of the opinion that this informtion was irrelevant while she either stated explicitly or implied by her demeanour that she disagreed - so it's easy to see where the accusations of snobbery might come into it. When I mentioned snobbery earlier on I was specifically referring some of the comments featured in the programme from the law students drinking pints in The Richmond pub on Church Street not too far from the King's Inns.

the fees for the prep courses are €300 per subject and €70 per subject for the Entrance Exams.

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This isn't way out line with the kind of fees that IT people pay for professional courses/exams. I guess many other professions would be similar too.

its our own fault that these people are they way they are. for instance during the 'annabel night club case' how many barristers defended how many defendents and how many days did they spend waffling on about their clients. I know everyone is entitled to a defence and is innocent until proved otherwise. however if the legal system was run on a more normal basis i dont think there would be a requirement for half of them, and how come they can demand such high fees for what they do? same can be said of footballers of course but sin sceal eile. pompous and and condescending would be two words that spring to mind. p***ks is a third one.