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Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

I fitted the loft ladder from woodies (which they are now selling at 100 euros, bought mine for 130) and it says that the door is insultated - it's about 1" thick.
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

Cut up and pin architrave together for surround whilst ladder is still on the ground- it's a lot easier.
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I would have thought this was better to do after as the size could be wrong.


When laying these cross ways, how would you get more insulation in place? Also, would you need to attach them to the joists?
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

Geegee said:
I would have thought this was better to do after as the size could be wrong.
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You would cut and mitre the architrave/ trim to match your loft ladder hatch lining, it will not change size after you put it up, will it? Trust me, do it the other way and you'll marvel at my advice, just as you try and work acurately with something over your head- it's not easy!
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

I think a wooden ladder with treads rather than rungs would be most suitable. Fakro do one suitable for a 120cm x 70cm opening ( existing hatch is 75cm x 76cm) with a handrail and stiles but it is €200. Are there any cheaper options?
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

"Dolle" (German) do an excellent ladder for about €135.
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

I see the company is actually Danish and not German as I had suggested, thanks for the link dobber 22!
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

Geegee said:
When laying these cross ways, how would you get more insulation in place? Also, would you need to attach them to the joists?
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You have two choices.

- The first is to leave the existing insulation between the joists (assuming it completely fills the gap right to the top of the joists, otherwise this option may not work so well), and add new insulation between your newly added supports. Because the new insulation is lying at right angles on top of the old insulation, it should help cover any gaps between the rolls of old insulation thereby giving you a better insulating effect.

- The other choice is to remove the old insulation entirely and add in new insulation which expands to fill the full gap from the base of the old joist to the top of the new supports. This was the option I chose as my new insulation was capable of expanding by this much and it had a higher insulation rating than the old insulation. I ran my new insulation between the old joists, and made cross cuts in it where it met my new supports so that it was able to settle around these new supports and reach right up to the base of the new flooring.

As regards the new supports, yes I attached them to the existing joists via screws (5mm x 70mm screws in my case, as the new supports were 50mm deep). I then screwed the chipboard sheets to the new supports (4mm x 40mm screws for that). For this job it really helps to have cordless drills. I used one to drill pilot holes, and the second one to drive the screws. If I had had to rely on a standard screwdriver, I would have had forearms like Popeye at the end, but I'd probably still be at it now! The benefit of having two drills is not having to take the time to switch between a drill bit and screwdriver bit - you can easily get away with one drill though, and one of [broken link removed] type of tool allows you to swap between drilling and screwdriving very quickly.

Incidentally, if you are going to be working with insulation, get yourself a decent face mask (such as one of the better disposable ones), good gloves, a hat, long sleeves, and something high-necked like a poloneck. You will sweat gallons if you are doing this work during warm weather, but getting fragments of glass-fibre insulation against your skin or in your hair is a nightmare. Our old insulation was glass-fibre (took a good portion of a mini-skip to get rid of it), but though the new insulation was not glass-fibre it was still an irritant to sensitive skin.

Oh, and adding very good insulation to the attic puts your water tank at greater risk of freezing in the winter. The general advice there is to not lay any insulation immediately under the water tank itself (so that some heat from below can reach the tank), wrap insulation around the outside of the tank (I used some of the old insulation for this), and insulate the lid of the tank. I glued a piece of 1"-thick polystyrene sheet to a piece of leftover chipboard, and used this as a lid for my water tank (the polystyrene is on the underneath of the chipboard so it is within the tank though not touching the water). Ever since I did that, we no longer have to turn the heat on the electric shower up so high in the winter as it is now heating water whose original temperature is not as low as it used to be - thus the shower uses less electricity and is a little quieter (our shower tends to get a bit more high-pitched as you crank up the heat level). I think our new insulation has paid for itself ages ago, for a variety of such reasons.
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

Anyone know where I can purchase the Dolle attic ladder? Anywhere that supplies the trade would be useful as my carpenter friend can buy and install.

Thanks
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

[broken link removed], in Dublin (Dalkey), has some of the Dolle range, although the only ones I can see there are the De Luxe models which start at €420. Looks like the De Luxe is a decent ladder, with good insulation too, but I'm not sure whether that price is good value though compared to the alternatives.

Some of the other ladders there might be Dolle too, but it is not immediately obvious on that site.

Carpenter, do you know which particular model of Dolle ladder you are referring to?
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

- The first is to leave the existing insulation between the joists (assuming it completely fills the gap right to the top of the joists, otherwise this option may not work so well), and add new insulation between your newly added supports
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It is a new house and there are two layers of insulation - one between the joists and the other on top in a wide roll. The top layer seems to have imprinted itself onto the top of the joists so I was thinking of cutting it and pushing it down between the joists on top of the bottom layer - less materials and labour than fitting new wooden supports?? What is the most suitable tool to cut insulation with and what sort of gloves should I wear?
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

The Dolle ladders appear to be stocked generally by Homevalue hardware stores of which http://www.mulveys.com/ seem to be members. Might be worth a try to contact them.
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

I've had a look at the ladder but I can't find the model number (even though I did retain the original instructions) however it has an insulated lid and does not have a handrail. I bought if from a Homevalue store for about €125 about 4 years ago and to be quite honest it was the best €125 ever spent, great for getting down the Christmas decorations at this time of year! I think the Delux model you refer to would probably be a bit of an overkill unless you had a lot of traffic.
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

Thanks folks will try and get my hands on one and post up the details.
Quality and speed of responses never ceases to amaze me!
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft


The new supports are mainly for the situation where you have existing pipes or wires running over the top of the joists, otherwise you may be able to lay your new flooring directly on top of the joists. It is worth having a look under your top layer of insulation, just in case it is hiding any pipes or wires which are lying across the joists. I guess it'll be down to the whim of the builders, electricians, and plumbers, as to whether things are lying across the joists or routed between, or through, the joists - in my case, some of the original wiring for the lights was running across the joists, and the pipework for a newly fitted electric shower also ran across the joists. I briefly considered gouging out small channels in the joists, so that the wiring would lie below the level of the top of the joists, but I quickly ruled that out as I wasn't sure at what stage I would be affecting the soundness of the joists themselves.

If you are considering laying the new flooring directly on the joists, and pushing the top insulation down between the joists to facilitate that, bear in mind that if you compress the insulation you may be reducing its insulating effect. In general, I believe that insulation is most effective when it is fully expanded. If you squeeze both layers of insulation down between the joists, you may end up with two layers of insulation which are doing a poorer job than just a single, fully expanded, layer. Your best bet would be to look up information on the insulation that you have, if you can find out what type it is, to see what its optimum thickness is. Getting maximum benefit from your insulation is another motive for adding new supports across the joists, if the insulation requires the additional height for best performance.

For cutting the insulation I started out for a Stanley knife, but found the blade too short. I then resorted to a sharp kitchen knife, and that worked (it may not be the best thing for the blade though, depending on the insulation material you use, so I didn't reach for any decent kitchen knives, just one that I was willing to risk). Ultimately I ended up using a sturdy scissors though, as that was a little easier. The insulation that I used is Pink Fibre Glass Insulation ([broken link removed]) - it is actually glass fibre (which I had forgotten), but it is much finer than the heavier and more scratchy yellow stuff that I have encountered before. It expands to 6 1/4", which was ideal for the space created when I added new supports. I bought it in Homebase at the time (several years ago). If your existing insulation is okay, then that'll safe you some cash and effort, otherwise I found this Pink insulation to be very good.

As regards gloves, I started with garden gloves, but found them too restrictive, so I ended up using standard kitchen rubber gloves. For the insulation that I was working with, even finer gloves would have been adequate, so next time I'd used something like nitrile gloves or vinyl gloves (I deliberately avoid latex gloves as apparently they are increasingly found to be problematic for people with sensitive skin).
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

I want to fit a new loft ladder.
For me to do this entails enlarging the attic opening. The existing opening fits in between 2 rafters but a new entrance needs a much larger opening. It means I would have to cut about 2 feet out of one rafter. The roof is made from pre-fab roof trusses so I am not sure if cutting is advisable? Can double noggings and reinforcement compensate for cutting through a rafter. Surely this is what companies such as Stira do to supply a loft ladder? any clues?
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft


Thanks Carpenter. I must have a look for that ladder. As you say, the Delux is probably overkill - one of the attractions of that model is the 50mm depth of the built-in insulation, but if the ladder that you describe has insulation too, then it is certainly worth investigating.
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

I have bought a two section aluminium loft ladder from B&Q for about €47. It entails converting the loft hatch into a pull-down trapdoor which is better in my situation as the existing opening is 750mm square. The only downside is the loft hatch will not be insulated. Any ideas on how to insulate it?
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

I have wondered about this in the past myself, but looking at the Dolle website, they seem to sandwich a layer of polystyrene between two layers of wood to form their insulated lid. The thickness of the polystyrene varies across the models, but the thickest that I saw mentioned was 50mm on the Delux range.

A framework of 50mm thick pine (or thinner if you want thinner insulation), with the insulation set into it, and all of this sandwiched by something like 6mm plywood (or even hardboard - white-faced if you want to avoid having to paint it) either side, and I would guess that should work. You will probably want extra bits of the pine inside the lid, lining up with where the ladder (and hinges?) screws to the lid, as the screws will need more than just the plywood/hardboard to hold them.
 
Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

Is there any rigid insulation which could be fixed to the top side of the hatch?
 
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