Key Post Key Post: Attic Ladders

Re: Attic Ladder

Legend99
No, I think you'll find most doors are standard. I had a tight fit on the one I installed in my own house. I had to plane down the sides very slightly and this combined with some gentle persuasion (hammer) allowed me to ease it into the slot. However my door was only a few mil over size. If you have a cut roof you can cut and trim the ceiling joists relatively easily to suit the door. If the roof is trussed you cannot modify the timber joists without impairing the structure of your house, certainly not without consulting an engineer. Try locating the door elsewhere and see if truss spacings are more favourable.

Re: Attic Ladder

Is a trussed roof the one with the W style prefab supports that they just lift into place....if so, feck.

Re: Attic Ladder

'Fraid so Legend. In theory at least, you could bolt on a new section of joist to the side of the ceiling joist, to maintain triangulation, then cut out the offending section, giving you an extra 40mm or so of room. But this would really need to be designed by a structural engineer. Have you checked the joist/ truss spacings elsewhere in the attic space?

Re: Attic Ladder

Carpenter said:

'Fraid so Legend. In theory at least, you could bolt on a new section of joist to the side of the ceiling joist, to maintain triangulation, then cut out the offending section, giving you an extra 40mm or so of room. But this would really need to be designed by a structural engineer. Have you checked the joist/ truss spacings elsewhere in the attic space?

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They are pretty constant at 560mm. Smallest ladder i can find needs 580mm. I must go some more research. What I could do as you say is to bolt on say 6 feet of a beam, then maybe take 10mm out of the side of each beamfor the length of the opening. the extra beam on the outside I would assume would allow me to notch out the 10mm from the beams...

Re: Attic Ladder

I think that would be ok but that's alot of work with a chisel to take off 10mm each side. Let me check my own "dolle" ladder this evening and see what dimension I had, I'll post an update first thing in the morning.

Re: Attic Ladder

if me circular saw was the right depth, i could do most of the work with that...thats assuming its not too deep to cut into the plaster board!

Re: Attic Ladder

You must have a big circular saw, joist depth is usually around 5" or 6" is it not? This would

Re: Attic Ladder

Carpenter said:

You must have a big circular saw, joist depth is usually around 5" or 6" is it not? This would

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yea, well circular saw would take off half the depth required so!

Re: Attic Ladder

Check out www.atticladders.com which has small ladders for restictive spaces and wait til i check my own this evening.

Re: Attic Ladder

Okay this is great, between the 2 of you I will have full instructions on how to do this.
One point , the idea of taking out 10mm at each side may not be needed as it is unlikely that the rafters are centred over the ceiling below. The idea of bolting on a beam at the side and then cutting out the length needed should work for me. Any spare space can be packed somehow with timber.

Any idea now where the cheapest place to get the stairs is.
Atlantic Homecare has the FAKRO for approx 140 , will check again
Co-op and other places seemed dearer
Must try builders providers to see..
Cheapest I have seen is woodies website for €99 with delivery at 6.35 ..
I am not sure of the make.. must email them.
Any all this planning is easier than the actual work...

Re: Attic Ladder

The Woodies one is an own brand.....and I don't get what you mean about the rafters being not centered over the ceiling??? Surely, either the rafters are big enough to take the box frame of the ladder or not big enough...doesn't matter where the rafters are?!

Re: Attic Ladder

What I meant is that if you put your ladder directly between the rafters then it may be off centre as seen from below. Not an issue if it is just a trap door but if you are using stairs , it may mean that the steps will end up too close to the wall for carrying stuff up.

Re: Attic Ladder

I wouldn't expect to pay much less than €125 for a decent stairs, it's not alot of money for what you're getting. Fakro are pretty good, it's just I found the Dolle to be very good quality and value for money.

Re: Attic Ladder

Hi Legend99
I did a bit of investigation up in the attic last night, just for you! The dolle ladder measures 580x 1175 (external frame). My truss centres were a little over 600mm, giving me about 575mm clearance, thus I was able to "persuade" the ladder to slip into the space. I still think you could plane the long sides of the ladder frame down alot easier than trying to modify the joists. I don't understand why the manufacturers don't make them to suit 600mm centres. If they reduced the width of the frame to say 555mm that would allow 10mm tolerance for fitting, presuming 600mm truss centres and joists of 35mm thickness (as mine were). Let us know how you get on.

Re: Attic Ladder

Carpenter said:

Hi Legend99
I did a bit of investigation up in the attic last night, just for you! The dolle ladder measures 580x 1175 (external frame). My truss centres were a little over 600mm, giving me about 575mm clearance, thus I was able to "persuade" the ladder to slip into the space. I still think you could plane the long sides of the ladder frame down alot easier than trying to modify the joists. I don't understand why the manufacturers don't make them to suit 600mm centres. If they reduced the width of the frame to say 555mm that would allow 10mm tolerance for fitting, presuming 600mm truss centres and joists of 35mm thickness (as mine were). Let us know how you get on.

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Thats a fair point actually...could place the ladder frame instead of the joists....hmmmm.....

Re: Attic Ladder

I wanted to enlarge my attic opening to install an attic ladder. Would a carpenter or builder do this? Does the ladder size dictate the opening size? The existing opening is 58cms width x 52cms length and I would like it enlarged to approx 60 x 64cms. The ceiling height is 2.43m approx (i.e. 8 feet).

Re: Attic Ladder

which ever part of the opening needs to be widening 'accross' the joists is obviously more complex than that which is at right angles to the joists. I, whenever i get a chance, intend planing the frame of my ladder that i get to fit into the openeing rather than anything else.....i will also then have to increase the other measurement, but don't think its that hard. a rough cut will do as you will be cornicing it with architrave anyways

fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

I'm going to have a go at this shortly so any advice/experience/tips would be appreciated. The loft access is about 700mm square from memory - would this present a problem because all loft ladder jits seem to be for a rectangular opening.

Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

You'll have to lengthen the opening to fit the hatch. Cut a new trimming piece (nogging) from 4x 2" or 6x 2". Fit in location, fix with screws to avoid cracking ceiling (don't use nails). Cut back plaster board to new nogging location and removing old nogging in the process. Cut up and pin architrave together for surround whilst ladder is still on the ground- it's a lot easier. You'll need two people for final fitting. Offer it up and fix with screws through the lining, shimming/ packing out as required.

Re: fitting loft ladder and flooring loft

As regards flooring your loft, you can buy tongue and grooved chipboard in 4' x 2' sheets which are easy to pass most attic openings. I bought mine in Homebase and I occasionally see them there on special offer.

If you have wires and/or pipe running across the joists in the attic, then the easiest way to deal with this is to lay down lengths of something like 2" x 2" (or whatever depth you need to clear the pipes and wires), across the existing joists, and attach the new flooring to those. The extra height gives you the option of adding another layer of insulation too. In my case, I pulled out the old insulation and replaced it with new insulation that expanded to fill the extra deep gap that I had created - it has made a huge difference to the amount of heat loss.

I also insulated the piece of wood with acts as the entrance to our attic (it just drops into the gap to fill it). It is now a much heavier object, which makes opening and closing the attic entrance more of a chore, but it should help retain heat in the house below.

I have often wondered about fitting a loft ladder, but because it seems like it wouldn't be feasible to insulate the opening for it, I have held off. Does anyone know if there Is a good way of insulating an attic entrance fitted with a loft ladder?