Jim Al-Khalili's documentary yesterday on "nothing"

horusd said:
Current theory tells us that everything came into existence at the BB, including S&T. No evidence whatsoever exists of anything "beyond" the universe, or "before "it.
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Everything that we can verify - excluding the universe itself. There is (arguably) evidence of stuff beyond the universe however.
horusd said:
We find it difficult to imagine pure "nothing", not even space. But there is no provable existence of anything "beyond" or "before" the BB. .
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My own working hypothesis is that there is no such thing as nothing -even beyond the universe.

The universe is expanding. People ask into what? This is the wrong way of understanding the universe's expansion. It expands like the a ballon from the inside,and not into anything
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The analogy fails a little there as the balloon expands into something. I'm assuming that the analogy envisions an expansion of the balloon but without an external increase in the size of the balloon.
 
Superman;1183085]Everything that we can verify - excluding the universe itself. There is (arguably) evidence of stuff beyond the universe however.

It's really hard to know how anyone can prove any of this, but I agree the BB theory is at least questionable. Hawkings described the "dot" that began the universe as a "thing" of infinite density. This makes little sense. Logically infinite density equates to no density! The problem here may be that language breaks down. Language describes what can be described in our terms. Usually by analogy and metaphor, but nothing compares to what we are talking about and so it becomes unspeakable and maybe unthinkable. The idea of "multiverses" where we are but one of billions(maybe an infinite number?) of universes alongside each other or like bubbles is interesting. And some of the claims are truly bizzare, and these are from scientists! Hawkings suggests there is no single "history" of the universe, but all possibilities/histories are valid. Others claim that every alternative reality exists, so there is a universe where I am typing this post in the dining room and not the kitchen. And yet another one where I'm typing it in the bedroom, and on the possibilities go.How weird is all this? It makes God's seven day creation and the Adam & Eve story so much more credible in comparision!

Some of the facts emerging from Quantum Mechanics are equally bizzare. Things happening without a cause. Things existing in two places at the same time. Things popping in and out of existence. You couldn't make some of this stuff up.

My own working hypothesis is that there is no such thing as nothing -even beyond the universe.

I understand why you think this and I kind of agree. I don't know what to make of this really.



The analogy fails a little there as the balloon expands into something. I'm assuming that the analogy envisions an expansion of the balloon but without an external increase in the size of the balloon.

Another analogy I heard was that the universe expands like the economy without a visible expansion. But all metaphors seems inadequate.

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horusd said:
It's really hard to know how anyone can prove any of this, but I agree the BB theory is at least questionable.
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I didn't say that the Big Bang theory is questionable - there is a huge amount of evidence for it. Some details may be subject to question however.
 
Guys, so happy you're still using my post for your conversations on this

I'm just fascinated by the matter and anti-matter. At the cern they managed to isolate temporary self-created matter for 20 secs. If they manage to isolate it for 30 secs we might get to know God... Just wonderful!!!
 
Superman said:
I didn't say that the Big Bang theory is questionable - there is a huge amount of evidence for it. Some details may be subject to question however.
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Sorry Superman I misquoted you. I was saying that aspects of the theory seem very odd.
 
Reminder:interesting program tonight on BBC 2 @9pm The Code.

"Marcus du Sautoy reveals a hidden numerical code that underpins all nature. A code that has the power to explain everything, from the numbers and shapes we see all around us to the rules that govern our own lives. In this first episode, Marcus reveals how significant numbers apear throughout the natural world. They're part of a hidden mathematical world that contains the rules that govern everything on our planet and beyond."
 
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