IT versus University

Due to a major planetary alignment not about to reoccur in my lifetime I'm in a position to go back to college full time. I know exactly what type of course I want but the option is between an institute of technology or a university.
This is a career change, I will be doing an undergraduate course from scratch and it's in the IT field.

The biggest question now is whether I would be better off going to a University because of academic snobbery, i.e. would a degree be better if from UL or LIT, both Hons degrees in Computer Science.

Tks for any viewpoints on a vexing question.

UL of course!! Im in UL at the moment and I have no complaints so far bar student services who are a bunch of.......

UL has a nicer campus than LIT IMO and its in a nicer area. As regards your couse no idea. I do know that Computer Systems in UL has the highest drop out rate of anycoourse in Ireland, but I dont know how much Comp Sci is related to it, be on your toes!!

If one thing sells it to you let it be the Stables... All will be revealed when you land!!!

It is computer systems im thinking of, and I'm no stranger to the place, even the Stables.

Have recently completed a Computer Engineering Degree in one of the NUI's and to be honest, I don't think any of the degrees are worth much (in either Comp science or Comp engineering). This is not just my opinion, but the opinion of a lot of friends and family who've done the degrees.

If you're interested in computers, or are already working in that field, get your qualifications through CISCO systems or other similar/relevant courses. These can be done through FAS.

Let's put it this way. If I had a company and was looking to employ someone in the area of networking.
I received 2 CV's; 1 from someone who got a 1st in college on Comp Science or 1 from someone who has a years work experience while doing a qualification in networking part - time, I know who I'd be choosing!

I can understand ixus's points alright. Some of the best software engineers and other IT bods that I've worked with have been either self taught or had primary degrees in another field altogether (Physics/Mathematics in a few cases - I always felt that the rigour of those fields suited s/w engineering - and Archaeology in one case!). On the other hand many companies will make recruitment and advancement decisions at least partly based on academic qualifications. I wouldn't casually dismiss the importance of a good recognised qualification but I would would stress the importance of gaining good hands on experience too.

"Have recently completed a Computer Engineering Degree in one of the NUI's and to be honest, I don't think any of the degrees are worth much (in either Comp science or Comp engineering). This is not just my opinion, but the opinion of a lot of friends and family who've done the degrees.'

In terms of employment Id say you would probably be more employable with an IT qualification than from a university. In other words IT qualifications are very vocational, you can be plugged in to do a specific job very quickly. University qualifiications are more academic in that you have a better view of the overall picture but probably can't be plugged into the specific tasks as quickly.

I manage about 12 Computer engineers some have high qualifications some have come through the industry and would have gone to fas etc.
I find that the graduates learn much quicker than the some of the lads that have come from FAS. But in saying that my best engineer is completely self thought.
My advice on IT.... there is a serious lack of good sales people in the Industry. Get a Degree and specilise in what I would class the some of the growth sections. Security,Data Centers, Comms VOIP and go into Corporate sales.
Subscribe to enn.com.

Just an Opinion

why ENN.COM ( environmental news network)
is that helpful?
c

sorry enn.ie

You can subscribe to the service to keep you up to date on topice of interest.
They mail you various links etc.

I have a Computer Science degree and TBH I think you would be better off picking an area of expertise and doing a HDip or a course less than 4 years.

I think he wants to do Comp Systems not Science. Computer Systems is heavy programming and its a very tough course...Is it even offered in LIT?

FYI:

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

BIG BIG difference in course content... Dont cock that one up on your CAO...

owenm said:

The biggest question now is whether I would be better off going to a University because of academic snobbery, i.e. would a degree be better if from UL or LIT, both Hons degrees in Computer Science.

Click to expand...

Well he has said CompSci here.

Anyway - have you talking to CompSci graduates to see are they happy with their careers? I've been working as a software engineer for 5 years and most people I come across would love a change out of IT. I'm going back to full time education myself in September.

CompSci grads from my course are really jack of all trades master of none. Generally the technology taught in the course isn't up to industry current standards .NET etc.

Although there seem to be many jobs they are all very specific. C++/MFC jobs are pretty much a thing of the past now. Take a look at recruitireland.com and analyse the commonly required skillset and compare this to the course curriculum.

owenm said:

It is computer systems im thinking of...

Click to expand...

???

Itchy said:

???

Click to expand...

Ahhh ok!

Looking at the two syllabus (what's the plural there ) The Computer Systems one looks closer to my degree so my comments are still valid.

syllabi

The reality is that many people can get a degree (in pretty much any subject) having done feck-all study and without learning anything about the subject.

Having said that, my experience has been that both physicists/mathematicians/engineers who've moved into IT are generally inferior in one particular way to comp sci graduates of roughly equal innate abilities. They simply haven't the breath (not depth) of knowledge of the subject. Knowing a particular technology (and there is a different "hot" technology every 6 months or year) will not sustain you in a career in my opinion. A good degree course in comp sci should cover everything from basic electrical systems and electronics, digital circuits, CPU design, machine code, assembly, many different programming languages and paradigms (functional, oo, etc.), development processes, etc. as well as compilers, operating system internals, algorithms, database theory, computer networks, basic statistics, discrete mathematics, computer-user interaction, etc. A broad appreciation of what is going in an entire IT system from the wires and chips to the high level software components is invaluable except for the most basic of software development jobs.

I think it's impossible to gain such a broad knowledge in a one year course (either a vocational course or a post-grad conversion course) and it's difficult to broaden your knowledge while working as the tendency is to deepen your knowledge of whatever technology you happen to be using at the time. At the same time, doing a degree doesn't guarantee such knowledge but I think it is probably the only way to acquire it. Remember specific deep IT knowledge only has transient value - this years C# .NET expert could be next years VB expert.

darag said:

- this years C# .NET expert could be next years VB expert.

Click to expand...

and LM051 Computer Systems (UL) or LC311 Information Systems (LIT) should give me that breadth to sustain a career ? rather than learning how to port PC games to the X-Box or configure IPv6 on Vista/Longhorn.

at the moment LIT is winning out because I will get exemptions for 4/6 subjects in first year (I am already an NCEA Dip graduate in a science discipline) allowing me to work full time in first year and I can return to work after two years out ((in) In education full time) with a pass degree and do the honours over 2 years part time.


My original question was a broad one, am I better off with a degree from a University or an IT given that it is a technical discipline...... does the snobbery still exist and does it manifest itself in HR departments and with major employers / hiring managers?

Many thanks to all who took the time to reply.

owenm said:

...... does the snobbery still exist and does it manifest itself in HR departments and with major employers / hiring managers?

Click to expand...

No I don't think such snobbery exists and I think experience is more valuable than qualifications.

I'd say it's still around, but more in the minds of parents making their kids' CAO choices for them (often with very little real knowledge of how much things have changed in the last 15-20 years) than in the minds of employers.