ISME slams late payments by big businesses

Brendan Burgess

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http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0329/isme.html

The Prompt Payments legislation must be amended to take account of the abuse of a dominant position by big business and state agencies,' commented ISME's CEO Mark Fielding.
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These guys are off the wall completely. I would imagine that small businesses, i.e. ISME's members, are the slowest payers of all. Why should they be exempt from any proposed legislation?
 
Brendan
This article doesnt say anything about being exempt!!

Surely this is just common sense, if the top doesnt pay promptly the middle and lower levels CANT pay.

I completely support the views expressed by Mark Fielding in this article.

The Irish Small and Medium Enterprises Association says small businesses are now waiting an average 76 days for payment.
ISME says that only 17% of firms are being paid within 30 days, while 48% are suffering delays of three months or more. At 90 days, firms in the construction sector are waiting the longest to get paid.
ISME says that companies in Leinster are the slowest at paying their bills at 79 days, while companies in Connacht are best at 62 days.
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The association claims that 2002 legislation is helping accountancy-led big business and Government agencies to delay payments to small firms.
Despite continuous warnings and corroborating statistics, the outgoing Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment refused to do anything to remedy the situation, it adds.
'The Prompt Payments legislation must be amended to take account of the abuse of a dominant position by big business and state agencies,' commented ISME's CEO Mark Fielding.
'The law, in this case, does the exact opposite to what was intended in allowing powering customers to dictate unreasonable terms to their smaller suppliers,' he added.
Mr Fielding urged the new Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Innovation Batt O'Keeffe to prioritise the review of the Prompt Payments legislation.
 
I agree with Brendan; MNC's pay on time, every time. We sometimes get payment before the goods are with our customers. Our bad debts are less than 0.01% of turnover.
 
Hi Number7

He should be calling on his members to pay bills promptly.

He is always on about the difficulty in accessing finance. We have come through 10 years of huge profitability and 12.5% Corporation Tax. He should explain where all the money made during the last 10 years has gone.

They are always moaning. Much worse than the farmers.

Ask any business person whether they would prefer to supply a large company or a member of ISME. You can be quite sure they would prefer to supply a large company.

Brendan
 
I take your point with regard to which type of business I would rather supply ( I supply both and definately prefer the big ones). I also agree that he should call on his members to pay promptly but that is not the point I make.

This article does not say anything about sme's being exempt, you will notice that I specifically say I support the views expressed by Mark Fieldings in this article.

I am not making any comment on the general observations of isme as I am not always in agreement with their positions but on this occasion I think you may have allowed your dislike of them colour your post.

My experience is that state organisations are often the worst offenders not mnc's, they are using every tactic in the book to avoid paying promptly ime. MNC'S are great to pay on the terms ime and small business is terrible. In order for this to change there must be leadership from the larger organisations by way of prompt payment of their suppliers, when this happens then sme's will have no excuse for delaying payment to their suppliers and pressure can be applied by way of legislation. I wouldnt expect that an business body like isme will be the ones putting on this pressure though, that should fall to government and regulators.

You have also titled the post as ISME Slams late payments by big business, that is misrepresenting the article, he dosnt slam anyone,he states the results of a survey and he calls on the new minister to review the legislation.

I am probably being a bit pedantic.
 
I'm not going to name a large well known organisation (private, foreign large company in Ireland many many years, good employer) but the contracts are negotiated so that it's minimum 60 or 70 days payment terms and sometimes when the quarterly returns are being done, accounts are instructed not to pay even at the 70 days to get the payments into the next quarter. This I've seen happen many times over the years. I assume it's the way most big companies operate. The power the organisation has over small companies who cannot complain or do anything about it it amazing. Presumably this has a knock on effect on the suppliers who in turn find it difficult to pay their own suppliers and sometimes wages even.
 
Hi number 7

Is your argument not like suggesting "Women should get penalty points for using their mobile phone when driving"?

I am drawing a comparison between what ISME says about big businesses (They are slammed) and small businesses ( They say nothing)

I have had problems with all three. Governments always pay even if they are occasionally late. Big businesses usually pay on time, but some don't. Small businesses are the worst offenders by far.


ISME should focus on the biggest problem first and then move onto the other problems.

Brendan

 
Bronte, We have never had that experience with large foreign companies.
 
There is a huge focus on prompt payments legislation in public bodies, with at least one Secretary General doing a personal monthly review of all late payments. I've come under pressure to release invoices that are being held for valid business reasons.

If a public body is paying late, you will get the extra 'prompt payments' fee.
 

You appear to be having difficulties accepting that your original post was inaccurate and misleading, instead you are focusing on issues that are not in the article that you posted and things you think should have been in the article but arn't.

1. The article you posted does not slam anyone.

2. You are drawing a comparison between what the isme says about big business and what it omits to say about small business. Thats not what you posted, it is an new addition to which I have made no response whatsoever. Had you posted a thread under the heading "Isme are not criticle of their own members or small business, I would have posted that I agree, but thats not what you posted at all.

3. You imply that ismes position is to exempt small business from legislation, but the article that you posted does not make any reference to exemptions, you seem to think that by not saying "and small businesses should be included in this review" that he is suggesting an exemption. Now that is what I would call fuzzy logic, in the stlye of "when did you stop beating your wife" damned if you do and damned if you dont.

4. Your second post, gives an insight into your feelings about ISME as they dont reflect any issue contained in the original post or my reply, just your feelings that they are moaners (I agree), that has nothing to do with the point either you made or I made. It is just a rant against isme, fair enough but put it in a post marked that way.

5. Your last point "isme should focus on the biggest problems first and then move on to others" is also a bit skewed, Isme rightly or wrongly consider this to be one of the big issues facing their members so from their perspective they should address that, you obviously disagree..........I have not expressed an opinion as to weather I consider this to be a big issue or a small issue, just the opinion that I agree with the sentiments in the article and that in order for money to flow between businesess it is necessary that big business pay promptly. I also think small business should pay promptly but again that is not an issue that has been raised in the article you posted.


6. You suggest that my arguement is like saying women should get points for driving and using mobile phone, I dont get it, I agree with the sentiments in the article you posted and I disagree that there is any suggestion of exemptions for small business contained in that article, how in any way is that reflected in the above statement?

I did warn that I was being pedantic
 

Hi Number 7

I think it's either careless wording by me or pedantry by you. I am not sure which.

If I had submitted my post to you for preview, i would have taken your advice and used either "why should small businesses be exempt from criticism". "Why does he not call on his own members to pay more quickly?"

I am drawing the comparison between the payment speed of big and small businesses. That is why I put that in the title. The governement is a separate category and pays generous interest on late payments. Businesses don't generally pay interest on late payments, as far as I am aware. I have never managed to collect it if they do.

This is what my second post said
Hi Number7


All these points are relevant to the topic. I can't see how you can say

Your second post... dont reflect any issue contained in the original post or my reply,
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You suggest that my arguement is like saying women should get points for driving and using mobile phone, I dont get it,
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If I issue a press release calling for women to get points for driving and using a mobile phone, I think it would be fair for a woman to point out that men should also get points for driving and using a mobile phone. If I specify woman, I imply that men are ok. By slamming, sorry criticising big businesses, he is implying, to my mind, that small businesses are ok.
 
Brendan
The article you posted is mark fieldings comments on the results of a survey based on the length of time it is taking for small businesses to get paid.

Your reference to women and penalty points etc would have some relevance if the article was, like your statement, a generalisation but it is not general it is specific to the length of time it takes for small business to be paid.

For example, a recent survey indicated that women were reciveing more penalty points for driving while using the mobile phones. Hairy Mary of the of the Irish Country womens association has urged the government to look at legislation surrounding mobile phone use while driving and the targeting of garda checkpoints to co - incide with the times of school runs, a time where women more than men are likely to be driving.

You then respond with something like, Jeekers that Hairy Mary of the ICWA is off the wall, why should women be exempt from penalty points for driving with mobile phones.

My issue is that neither Hairy Mary or Mark Fielding have made any suggestion of exemption for anyone either by inclusion or exclusion they have commented on a problem specific to the group they are tasked to represent.

By the way I accept the comparison you are making between big and small business and the payment speed I just dont think it is reflected in either the thread title or the article you posted.

My head is frying now so I will concede defeat in this debate, withdraw and lick my wounds and come back another day and another topic!

Enjoyed the challange of trying to put my point, its been a long time since I had to try doing that in a written sense and I am very obviously in need of practise.
 
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