>>Is VHI good value?

reply to Tedd

I'll talk about making money go as far as possible all day long but I'm less comfortable with talking about the health of another.
I just finally replied to the thread out of courtesy to Devils Ad.
Flame away if your that way inclined.
 
Flame???

Hi Geoffreyod

Not a flame at all, but a fair point I think. Your point is that some particular individuals may be able to have insurance through VHI who may not be insurable through BUPA. That is a very important point for a small number of people.

But VHI is not necessarily the best choice for everyone as the cover it provides is more expensive, and the vast majority of people (obviously unlike your father) can choose freely between the two options, and are therefore free to choose the cheaper one (BUPA).
 
comments by geoffreyod

I find your comments offensive and unnecessary.

The post in question has been removed.
 
Political Correctness gone mad

geoffreyod said "I'd like them to delete my last two posts to the thread"

[relevant material deleted]
 
Political Correctness gone mad

Geoffrey - give it a break. Your latest posts are adding nothing to the discussion in hand. Please take facetious comments to . If you review the AAM posting guidlines you'll see that offensive comments will be edited/deleted.

CM (aka ClubMan)
 
Moderators, your reply please?

geoffreyod said "I'd like them to delete my last two posts to the thread"

[relevant material deleted]
 
Moderators, your reply please?

Unfortunately I am not in a position to enter into an email discussion about this.

Point 2 of the posting guidelines states:

We also delete offensive comments in an otherwise proper post.

Obviously at least one poster was genuinely offended by some of the earlier comments which were, in any case, irrelevant to the discussion in hand. For these reasons they were removed.

In case you're not aware AAM is run on a completely voluntary basis by Brendan in conjunction with a small set of moderators and technical assistants. Minimal levels of censorship are enforced but if necessary offensive/irrelevant comments will be removed.

I hope you appreciate my/AAM's position on this matter.
 
Health Insurance

I have a theory that the older generation who practically had no insurance on themselves (health, PHI, life assurance, house in surance in many cases etc etc lived longer and happier.

I just have an uneasy feeling that if our sub concious mind knows we are insured against certain perils that such perils inevitably come to pass.
Call me crazy ......... but .........
 
Re: Moderators, your reply please?

Posted by Darag on ;
it's not that funny
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i'm with brendan on this. i canceled my bupa plan last year after observing what happened to a friend with no health insurance who got appendicitis last year. they were promptly treated. it cost them around 40 quid. horror of horrors, they had to share a ward with hoi polloi. in the vast majority of cases, this is the only difference in treatment between the insured and the uninsured for non-elective hospitalization and i'm not that fussy. when i'm sixty, i'll buy the top health insurance plan which will ensure i get good value subsidised by the under 40s.

nor do i bother paying 4 quid a month to insure a 39 euro mobile phone.
 
Re: Health Insurance

The rationale for VHI/BUPA was never (or at least it never should have been) the possibility of emergency hospitalization, for conditions such as appendicitis but for elective surgery and treatments that can take forever to take place if you are on a public waiting list. I know of one man who died at 52 years old after spending 3 years waiting for cardiac treatment. When his turn came around, the doctors told him his condition was too far advanced for surgery to be of any use. He died about 3 months later. He could have afforded VHI or Bupa subs.
 
Re: Moderators, your reply please?

For ladies of child-bearing age, access to private or semi-private rooms during 'confinement' for childbirth is a big issue too.

when i'm sixty, i'll buy the top health insurance plan which will ensure i get good value subsidised by the under 40s.
Click to expand...
Hi Darag - Don't forget that there is no guarantee that 'community rating' will still be available to new members in the future, so you may be facing a huge bill when you come to purchase insurance in your 60's.
 
Re: Health Insurance

sure rainyday, i accept that for some people vhi or bupa offers real benefits but i've thought through my situation and decided that it doesn't really make sense for me.

yes tommy, elective treatment is a different story but i honestly don't know of a single friend or even friend of a friend of my age who has had elective medical care. i believe the chance of me benefitting from this aspect of the cover is miniscule. obviously as you get older, it's different and if i were hitting sixty i'd certainly buy cover. however, maybe at that stage the public health system will have improved also; who knows.
 
Re: Moderators, your reply please?

Hi darag

It's great to have someone who actually agrees with me.

Rainyday made a point about pregnant women and it reinforces my point very well. If you are planning to have big medical expenses - e.g. if you are planning to have a baby, then VHI is great value. If you are not expecting to be sick, because you are young, healthy, non-smoking and not expecting to have a baby, then VHI is terrible value.

I would pay for VHI if it was the same as any other insurance. Link the premium to the risk.

Brendan
 
Health Insurance

Or...

We could move to just about any other European country as Ireland has the worst public health system in Western Europe; (or is it Europe?)

Why is that in Ireland which is now a leading world economy still has such a dire public health service? A country where one in two people feel it necessary to take out private health insurance.

Even in the UK nine out of ten people *don't* take out private health insurance.
 
Is VHI good value?

The mere fact that VHI/BUPA is being debated speaks volumes about the ignorance of health insurance.

Say you own a corner shop and pay corporate taxes. The rates include civil protection, i.e. Gardai. Some yobbo comes along and 'sells' you an 'additional' policy that protects you from unsavoury characters and unforseen damage. So you pay the chap weekly from the till.

The scenario described above is called extortion and is patently criminal.

The Health Service 'advises' you of a lengthy wait for a procedure which is either elective or non-life threatening. Then the same gang offers you a 'policy' that protects you from unforseen delays. Sounds the same to me.
 
Interesting proposal, but . . .

The proposal is interesting and an increasing number of younger people are opting out of health insurance altogether. These people make community rating possible - i.e. they basically subsidise those who claim (and older people make more claims as their health starts to deteriorate) and in their turn when they get older are subsidised by younger people. Its all very egalitarian, and all very unfair.

This is because every other insurance industry in Ireland is market based rather than government controlled. Therefore the 24 year old who may only make a claim once every 5 years will heavily subsidise the 59 year old with a heart condition, but he will not be subsidised in return for car insurance or other insurances which are risk based.

Another problem is that if the cost of VHI escalates too much and younger people drop out completely, the company will be unable to support sicker members. Perhaps there is a need to make insurance more competitive and slightly loosen the regulatory environment enough to keep people insured.
 
europeanhealth

Jasper,

In quite a few European countries, if one's income is above a certain level, one is legally obliged to take out private health insurance. If your income is above the cutoff level and you do not have private health insurance, you have no entitlement to any free treatment from the health service.

If one's income is below this amount, one comes under a public health insurance. If a patient is ill, that patient
receives the same treatment and care in the same hospital irrespective of whether the patient is privately or publically insured.

Either people pay for it via their taxes or via an insurance policy. 'Free Health care' is a misnomer in that health services have to be paid for someway.
 
Interesting proposal, but . . .

> If a patient is ill, that patient receives the same treatment and care in the same hospital irrespective of whether the patient is privately or publically insured.

That is the case here too - just that privately insured patients may be entitled to avail of alternative forms of accommodation (e.g. semi-private or private - always subject to availability!) rather than just going on the public wards and they can also skip waiting lists for elective procedures. However the actual medical care and treatment will generally be exactly the same regardless of whether one is a public or a private patient.
 
Re: europeanhealth

However the actual medical care and treatment will generally be exactly the same regardless of whether one is a public or a private patient.
Click to expand...
The treatment itself may be the same, but it may come 1-3 years later for a public patient. Health insurance is more than just getting a nice room.
 
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