Is there a future for Fianna Fail?


They've been in govt for 50 out of the last 80 years!!!

Not to mention.
1. Not achieving any of its founding objectives.
2. Not stopping the Property Bubble.
3. Not regulating the banks.
4. Not introducing land reform.
5. A long list of poor negotiations eg road overspends, benchmarking, Thornton Hall, Port Tunnel, P-Pars, e-voting etc.
6. Not introducing structural reform of the health and other public service or sheltered professions, when the funds were there.
8. Blowing the best chance this Nation has ever had of building a sustainable, modern and truly Republican state.
 
Another one of FF's most dangerous omissions was to fail to bring in anti-trafficking legislation. Women trafficked here for the purposes of sham marriages which aren't illegal are sometimes being raped or held captive. Asked about why they didn't Dara Colleary could only say he didn't know.

Most of these women are from poor and desperate Latvian backgrounds. The Latvians are furious with us, anf FF's omission has led us to being one of the criminal world's backdoors into Europe. So much for FF "values". What on earth can they be if they can't be bothered to care for very vulnerable women?
 
 
Stevie, I'm sure the other 2 big parties would share the objectives you mentoned in your post so I do not think that would make FF unique.
FF has traditonally had a lot of support in working class areas in Dublin and SF/Ind/Social party have stolen their thunder.
 

FF always traditionally looked after the working man and delievered locally in the community. When they moved away from that ethic and started Galway tents etc. they got out of touch with their own ordinary members and the members of the public that got them elected.

I was sickened by the comments made on the TV3 show by ex-FF TDs, I know it was edited to make FF look bad but there was no excuse for the arrogance shown in some instances. However I dont think this accurately reflects the FF party as a whole, there are many people in FF who work hard for their communities and believe in trying to make Ireland better as a country. Until FF however show real relevance to the people, then they wont get back in power. Its not good enough to just not be FG/Labour, people have to have a real belief that FF going forward will be different in order for them to be relevant. If they go back to their core ideals and produce policy/legislative bills reflecting these beliefs then I do think the public can forgive them. Perhaps I am being naive, but I genuinely think that the Irish people can get over the current hate for FF if FF show they have really changed.
 

Yes you are being naive.

They had the guts of 20 years growth to fund all their core beliefs and they didn't bother.

There may be good people in FF but none of them stood up and shouted stop - they didn't shout stop to Haughey, they didn't shout stop to Ray Burke, they didn't shout stop to Liam Lawlor and they certainly didn't shout stop to Bertie Ahern, including the current leader who voted in Cabinet for all these decisions.
 

In those 20 years, they increased social welfare, increased the old age pension, invested in new hospitals, tried to balance public pay with the private sector (admittedly this hasnt worked out well as now everyone is afraid to negatively benchmark), maintained free 3rd level education for equality of opportunity and at the same time tried to put some money away for a rainy day (Pensions Reserve Fund).

Seriously you cant say they didnt do good things over those 20 years. Most FF members didnt know what Lawlor and Burke were up to and heaves did take place against Haughey and Aherne when it came to light there may have been dodginess going on (forgive my use of word may here as we await still conclusions of Mahon Tribuneral).

They werent perfect but they didnt get re-elected 3 times in a row for no reason.
 
Most FF members didnt know what Lawlor and Burke were up to

This most certainly is not true. Lawlor had a very iffy reputation as far back as the 1980s. Similarly, there were serious question marks hanging over Burke in the 1980s arising from his alleged involvement in some 1970s North Dublin planning matters.

At the time, these issues were common knowledge amongst FF followers at all levels. Anyone with a keen interest in politics would also have been aware of them.
 
FF always traditionally looked after the working man and delievered locally in the community.

Whilst this worked well for FF in the past, I think we need a political system where the country comes first rather than parish pump politics.
 
FF founding objectives have no relevance anymore! Is a United Ireland really of relevance to the majority of people these days? I was watching Vincent Browne during the last election, he read out a poll that showed Fianna Fail's support was derived mainly from people over the age of 65 and that only 8% of people under the age of 30 said they would vote FF in the next election.
 

they did all this on the back of increasing transactional taxes, a terrible mistake and they surely knew they could'nt last forever. But they stuck their heads in the sand and now our grandchildren will end up paying for these mistakes.
They threw out even more 'gravy' in the lead up to each election, again without giving thought to long term planning/funding. I know all parties try to time budget cycles to be favourable before elections, but FF really let rip in the early-mid noughties
 
Used to be the party of the small farmer and the working man

I think one of their greatest achievement was slum clearance and council housing, many of those houses are still around today and in better shape then the slapped up Celtic Tiger era buildings
The country didn't have a lot of money to spare but they went straight into this in the thirties so well done.
At the same time bankrupted many farmers and destroyed the cattle industry with the economic war

Even their leader Séan Lemass wasn't above appointing friends to State boards and getting protectionism and licenses for cronies and their businesses
 

I used to be very quick to criticise the land war. Then I read up on it.
 
I used to be very quick to criticise the land war. Then I read up on it.


I remember our history teacher all those years ago summing up the Economic War for us in a little story.

A farmer was out moving cattle from one area to another when passing a church he asked a passer by if he would look after the cattle while he ran in and got confession.
The passer by replied, grand but please dont run off and leave them with me!