Z
The problem is not that they represent their members but that they have an effective veto over government decisions.
which is [broken link removed] propagated by the [broken link removed].. There can be a "them and us" mentality which is never addressed by management.
Yes. In this context I have just as much of a problem with IBEC of CORI having a quasi-formal say in how the country is run. The government, which has been run by Fianna Fail for most of the period in question, hasn't had the balls to do their job. This isn't only evident in partnership but also in how they have left a legislative vacuum that the Supreme Court has had to fill whenever contentious issues have had to be dealt with. The proliferation of quangos is also a symptom of this political cowardice.So the root cause of the problem is the government for allowing this to be so?
I think it was Tim Harford in "The undercover economist" who argued that isn't the full picture. The original unions were not to protect workers from the people giving them jobs but from other people who'll do their job for less or who'll do it better. Same goes for professional bodies to protect the jobs of the likes of doctors, solicitors etc..Unions historically protected workers from exploitation by their managers/ employers.
Very good points.I think it was Tim Harford in "The undercover economist" who argued that isn't the full picture. The original unions were not to protect workers from the people giving them jobs but from other people who'll do their job for less or who'll do it better. Same goes for professional bodies to protect the jobs of the likes of doctors, solicitors etc..
The public sector is systematically protected from people who'll do their job for less (not many non-Irish allowed into the civil service or teaching for instance) so the unions ended up with time on their hands for all sorts of expensive nonsense.
When people refer to 'public sector waste', much of this seems to have been instigated by the unions. For example;
- Christmas shopping time, Banking time, Rain allowance, Privilege day etc.
- 20% more pay in public sector than private sector
- 'job for life' status
If you have an enough work for 5 people and only 4 employees, the union wants you to pay overtime to the 4 for the additional work. The common good is to hire a fifth person.
The unions are there to serve their members and not the public. They couldn't care less about the person on the dole who is looking for a job.
I am convinced that in the coming months more and more companies will get in to labour disputes about this issue . It happened in the ESB in Poolbeg in the dark ol' days and it will happen again.
I too would love to hear more about the rain allowance! I'm somewhat facinated by the 'seems to have been instigated by unions' claim. Is there any basis for this?When people refer to 'public sector waste', much of this seems to have been instigated by the unions. For example;
- Christmas shopping time, Banking time, Rain allowance, Privilege day etc.
- 20% more pay in public sector than private sector
- 'job for life' status
I'm not so sure that any of these issues are untouchable. If there is a real issue here, why not sit down around the table and start discussions. The proposal for disbanding is quite ludicrous. The Govt has absolutely no mandate for this, and in the unlikely event that they sought a mandate, they would get their asses kicked. This is a classic attempt at a 'shock doctrine' - using hard times as an excuse to hit ordinary workers.The issue is that all these perks seem to be untouchable, because of the unions. With this in mind, does it not seem reasonable that the unions, both private and public, are disbanded until (or rather, if,) Ireland gets back on its feet? The 'government' would then be able to make decisions without having to pander to a third party's unreasonable demands.
Would you care to expand or give some examples of this?(not many non-Irish allowed into the civil service or teaching for instance)
A smart union will also be keen to get a 5th paying member.If you have an enough work for 5 people and only 4 employees, the union wants you to pay overtime to the 4 for the additional work. The common good is to hire a fifth person.
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