Is owner of a private limited company entitled to claim subsistence on civil service rates?
- Thread starter jokerini
- Start date
He is not a civil servant and operates through a limited company that can claim legitimate business expenses. Why seek to claim a daily allowance that applies to civil servants?
Steven Barrett
Registered User
- Messages
- 5,333
You are allowed to. Civil service rates are the highest mileage rates allowed without having to get approval from the Revenue.
Thinking through this logically, you would say no. His place of work is the car. Getting mileage and subsistence for a job that involves driving is not what they expenses are intended for. Bus, taxi and truck drivers would be claiming it too.
I'm sure someone with greater knowledge of this will confirm the position on it.
But is it not the subsistence allowance he is talking about rather than mileage?
I still doubt that it would be allowed though.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 53,770
What does his accountant or tax advisor say?
torblednam
Registered User
- Messages
- 915
Arguably this type of employment is a "travelling appointment" and subsistence would be claimable.
See Section 4.3 in Revenue's TDM 05-01-06 "Tax treatment of the reimbursement of expenses of
travel and subsistence to office holders and employees"
4.3 ‘Travelling appointments’
A ‘travelling appointment’ is one where either:
a) an employee is required to travel in the course of her/his job (for example, an
occupation which generally involves multiple daily appointments with
customers (e.g. travelling salesperson, travelling repair person, service
engineers, etc.-); or
b) travelling is an integral part of the job (for example, bus driver, lorry driver,
coach driver, or van driver etc.).
The reimbursement of expenses by the employer to such an employee is generally
only in relation to subsistence but may sometimes include expenses of travelling
where an office holder or employee is required to use her/his own car on a business
journey.
Where an individual whose job can be categorised as a ‘travelling appointment’
would not otherwise be regarded as having a ‘normal place of work’ for the purposes
of computing travel and subsistence expenses for this category of worker, her/his
employer’s base will be regarded as her/his normal place of work.
Where a business journey commences from the employee’s home or the employee
returns directly to home, then the expenses of travel and subsistence that may be
reimbursed without deduction of tax are the lesser of those incurred on the journey
between:
a) home and the temporary work location; or
b) the employer’s base (normal place of work) and the temporary work location.
See Section 4.3 in Revenue's TDM 05-01-06 "Tax treatment of the reimbursement of expenses of
travel and subsistence to office holders and employees"
4.3 ‘Travelling appointments’
A ‘travelling appointment’ is one where either:
a) an employee is required to travel in the course of her/his job (for example, an
occupation which generally involves multiple daily appointments with
customers (e.g. travelling salesperson, travelling repair person, service
engineers, etc.-); or
b) travelling is an integral part of the job (for example, bus driver, lorry driver,
coach driver, or van driver etc.).
The reimbursement of expenses by the employer to such an employee is generally
only in relation to subsistence but may sometimes include expenses of travelling
where an office holder or employee is required to use her/his own car on a business
journey.
Where an individual whose job can be categorised as a ‘travelling appointment’
would not otherwise be regarded as having a ‘normal place of work’ for the purposes
of computing travel and subsistence expenses for this category of worker, her/his
employer’s base will be regarded as her/his normal place of work.
Where a business journey commences from the employee’s home or the employee
returns directly to home, then the expenses of travel and subsistence that may be
reimbursed without deduction of tax are the lesser of those incurred on the journey
between:
a) home and the temporary work location; or
b) the employer’s base (normal place of work) and the temporary work location.
Steven Barrett
Registered User
- Messages
- 5,333
Even still, they would have to be away from their normal place of work for at least 5 hours to claim €17.92.
Good luck arguing with the Revenue that a car isn't your normal place of work if you are a driving instructor!!
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 53,770
For any issue like this, which is arguably specific to the trade, ask others in the industry what they do.
It is possible that one of the companies has sorted this out with Revenue before.
It is possible that one of the companies has sorted this out with Revenue before.
torblednam
Registered User
- Messages
- 915
From the tax and duty manual:
"Where an individual whose job can be categorised as a ‘travelling appointment’
would not otherwise be regarded as having a ‘normal place of work’ for the purposes of computing travel and subsistence expenses for this category of worker, her/his employer’s base will be regarded as her/his normal place of work."
Gordon Gekko
Registered User
- Messages
- 7,848
I would have thought that all expenses incurred in the course of the driving instructor business would be deductible because it’s one of those dual control cars. Is there private use? I’d have thought not?