Is my snag list unreasonable?

[serotoninsid]

I snagged most of my house today (yet to do heating system as it wasnt hooked up). I showed a few people the list I've put together this evening and they think some of the items are unreasonable.

Now I know that for many things its impossible for people here to give their opinions without checking out the property but any general feedback would be welcome.

One point that was made is that its pointless asking a builder to get the painter to re-do small spots he's missed - cos he would have to do the whole wall to get it right - and it would be next to impossible to get them to do this - given that the paintwork is otherwise ok. What do you think?

Snaglist here -> http://rapidshare.de/files/7596777/snag_list.doc.html
(click on link, go to 'choose download type' and click the 'free' button at the bottom of the list; then click on snag_list.doc).

 

[ClubMan]

You need to prioritise the items so that at least the most important/significant ones get attention first. In my experience you can expect some of the less significant ones to be ignored.

 

[brodiebabe]

No i don't think it is unreasonable. in relation to the paint spots the whole wall should be repainted, going over the spots will just make them more visible.

 

[Dunners]

Put it this way - you wouldn't buy a car with scratches on it, would you? And given that a house is a considerably bigger purchase, why settle for anything less than 100%.


As the other posters point out, you won't get everything on your snag list done, but you can certainly try! I kept on going back to the builders until they were completely fed up with seeing me, and eventually just did most of my items (even the little ones) probably just to get rid of me!!!!

 

[extopia]

Did you have an architect or engineer supervise the build? If so get him or her involved in the snagging.

Your biggest problems are the damp patches. Top of the list! Probably means failure or incorrect installation of DPC, or else mortar droppings in your cavity walls forming a bridge. On the other hand it could just be that the doorframes weren't properly sealed. Either way, these are serious issues and will get worse.

It sounds like the whole house needs to be repainted. The fact that the painter didn't paint between adjacent sockets (not to mention the mess and the missed areas) means it was probably an amateur job. I'd try to get an allowance to put towards a professional painter of your own choosing.

"Walls not square" - probably too late to do anything about that. How bad are they?

Holes etc. are easy enough to fix so put them near the top of your list.

 

[Wiggles]

"Walls not square" - probably too late to do anything about that. How bad are they?

Holes etc. are easy enough to fix so put them near the top of your list.

Where is this house? Issues you have sound similar to my current experience.

 

[fobs]

I would expect the paintwork to be rectified and not unreasonabel to request as such. If they can't/won't do it then give you some money off the price towards getting this done privately!

 

[ClubMan]

Well what people might reasonably expect to be done and what will actually be done are two different things in my experience. Obviously everyone expects the new house that is being bought with good money to be perfect but I suspect that this rarely happens. By all means hassle them to get all of your snags fixed but I would be surprised if you manage to get them all done so make sure that the most importants ones are addressed first.

 

[CCOVICH]

I don't necessarily think that a whole wall has to be repainted if there are bits that need to be touched up. I got a tin of paint off our builders to cover over some marks, and it looks fine, without painting the entire wall.

 

[Seagull]

If the houses in our estate are anything to go by, it's not really worth hassling them too much about the paint. After you've had all the "settling in" cracks, the place nedds repainting anyway.

 

[serotoninsid]

You need to prioritise the items so that at least the most important/significant ones get attention first.

Thanks for that - your right - I will stick an asterisk beside the major snags with a note down the bottom that these are priority.

Put it this way - you wouldn't buy a car with scratches on it, would you? And given that a house is a considerably bigger purchase, why settle for anything less than 100%.

I agree with this sentiment entirely but its not that simple. As you yourself and Clubman have pointed out, I wont get ALL my snags done. The question is can they force me to close if they put the pressure on? As vanila clarified recently in another thread, snags that are deemed to be 'minor' in nature cannot hold up the process. However, what happens where they don't want to provide a written undertaking to complete such snags in due course? Similarly, what happens when both parties are deadlocked on major snags?

I kept on going back to the builders until they were completely fed up with seeing me, and eventually just did most of my items (even the little ones) probably just to get rid of me!!!!

I would be all for doing this - and have made it very clear that I am in no hurry to close (others closed weeks ago). However, as outlined above, my concern would be legal pressure applied to force me to close.

@Wiggles: West of the shannon - not in your neck of the woods but bad workmanship abounds!
@extopia: The box room is Very bad - and i will be insisting on them redoing it - non-negotiable. Its instantly visable to the naked eye on entering the room. The other wall problems are bad - but not visibly. I will probably end up biting the bullet on those - unless theyre playing hardball with what i want done - or maybe try and get a discount; No architect checked out the build as it went up or signed off on it.
Ref. everyones comments on paintwork - i will get them to do it - if they hash it up, then i'll tackle that when i come to it. The painters must come back anyways cos its clear that one room (downstairs WC) has only had one coat. Seeing as theyre coming back, they should be able to sort the other painting snags.

 

[ClubMan]

Thanks for that - your right - I will stick an asterisk beside the major snags with a note down the bottom that these are priority.

Maybe better to list them in order of priority.

I agree with this sentiment entirely but its not that simple. As you yourself and Clubman have pointed out, I wont get ALL my snags done.

I'm not saying that you won't but I would be surprised if you did. By all means keep hassling them until you do but be prepared to be accept that some (preferably the more cosmetic/less serious ones) will not be done. At least that was my experience and that of many other people that I know.

Good luck with this and let us know how you get on. In a few years time you'll have forgotten all about the hassle you had at this time!

 

[Wiggles]

Without going back over all the advice you got here, the major things should be sorted before you close.

Your issues are similar to my own. I snagged on the 3rd of September and have still not closed. My ceilings were running at a pitch and after a fight with builder they have started to fix them. They also re-painted most of the house and my next fight is a partition wall that is not square.

No idea when I will end up closing. I bought the house on what the show house and the plans looked like and that didn't include crooked ceilings and walls.

Hold out!!

 

[serotoninsid]

Just a quick update. I called to site to tell the foreman that i had more or less snagged but that they would have to hook up the heating so that i could check it before I could complete the snag list. He told me I didnt need to as the plumber would do all of that.

I didnt give him any list yet but showed him the most important snags;

- the dampness he said was from the doors being open - which makes no sense whatsoever to me - as i doubt very much if those doors have been opened at all in the last couple of months.

- the crooked walls - he admitted that they were ****ed up, that they had a useless plasterer at the time, etc. However, he says that theyre all like that (the whole row) and the boss wont move on it. When i said it was non-negotiable he said I can always 'throw it up' (the house) - its not too late!

So it looks like i will be playing hardball with these féckers.

Q. Am I entitled to send in an engineer to do a report on both of these items once the initial snag is done and theres a dispute?

They also re-painted most of the house and my next fight is a partition wall that is not square. No idea when I will end up closing.

Have they tried to force the issue legally with their solicitor getting heavy handed and if so how have you dealt with this?

 

[Wiggles]

I as yet haven't had to get my solicitor involved to get work done; they have just kept the builders solicitors informed.

I too withheld my second snag list because they had completely ignored the major issues on the first one. I was told not to do this by my solicitor. The advice I got was to put everything on the snag and submit it. If the central heating hasn't been hooked up put it as a snag and submit it. I was told that if the builders don't have a snag list then they could look to close and if you won't, interest could be charged. Just the advice I got, maybe check it with your solicitor.

My Dad's friend is a finishing foreman for a separate builder. His advise to me with regards the crooked wall and ceiling was if it isn’t right they need to rip it down and do it again. Otherwise the expense is on you to correct the problem. The foreman told me in my house that the one crooked partition wall in my house is the same and worse in others. Bullsh*t in my opinion and as yet I'm not closing till they fix it!! I really don't think you should close on the basis that "All the other hoses are like that".

 

[serotoninsid]

I too withheld my second snag list because they had completely ignored the major issues on the first one. I was told not to do this by my solicitor. The advice I got was to put everything on the snag and submit it. If the central heating hasn't been hooked up put it as a snag and submit it.

Good point. I just gave the solicitors a heads up as to why the snag has not been submitted within 7 days (as is the standard protocol) - saying that the house was not made available to snag.

My Dad's friend is a finishing foreman for a separate builder. His advise to me with regards the crooked wall and ceiling was if it isn’t right they need to rip it down and do it again. Otherwise the expense is on you to correct the problem.

Are your walls visibly crooked? If not how much are they out?
If they were going to be sound enough about redoing the box room, I was prepared to let the other walls slip - but now that they're being bástards, I'm thinking I will persue the lot. I've decided that I might as well go in with both feet and try and organise an engineer to do a report now - and not even wait to see if they have a change of heart on submission of the list cos its very unlikely.

 

[Wiggles]

Are your walls visibly crooked? If not how much are they out?

Yes the wall (It is only the one wall) is visibly crooked. Its a stud partition between the hallway and the kitchen and it looks like there is a belly in the wall. I said it to the estate agent weeks ago and have put it on every snag list. I still don't think the builders have fixed it, but I'm holding out till they do!

As I said before, if they don't fix it now the cost will be on you to get it right. I personally would be driven mad looking at it......... Too much money being paid for such bad workmanship.

 

[Fintan]

To the OP their is nothing un-reasonable on your snag list.

After reading through it, have you checked your attic? Insulation / felt etc
Have you checked you checked the join between the external wall and the soffits
Checked all your guttering and man-hole covers / drainage
Have you checked all your window seals
Internal locks checked?
Have all sockets been checked that they work?

The dampness on the interior wall in the kitchen would be a big red flag. Are you covered by Home Bond?


I would definitely get an engineers report on it before I took charge of the house.

Just to declare my affiliations, I work for www.HomeSnag.ie

 

[serotoninsid]

Have you checked your attic? Insulation / felt etc

I peered in there - to confirm that rockwool was in place but didnt get up there properly as the ladder i had was too short. What exactly am I after as regards the felt Fintan - that theres no holes in it? Is there anything else I should check whilst up there as I intend getting up there properly with a halogen lamp when i go back to check the heating.

Have you checked you checked the join between the external wall and the soffits

I visibly checked from ground level - and I have been there on other occassions when its been raining - theres no sign of water getting down in between.

Checked all your guttering and man-hole covers / drainage

Yeah - all checked.

Have you checked all your window seals?

I thoroughly checked each window for scratches - and to my amazement there were none. Also checked that the space between wall and windows/doors had been filled. However, checking window seals never occured to me. Will do this when I go back - thanks.

Internal locks checked?

All but two - the patio and back doors for which I had no keys. They will go down on the initial snag list just to cover myself - so that they have to provide keys for when I return.

Have all sockets been checked that they work?

EVERY lightswitch and electrical socket in the house was tested - and I highly recommend that nobody assumes that something so basic could not be in order. I found one set of light switches that didnt work, and two seperate switches that turn the light off in the 'on' position/turn light on in the 'off' position. All electric sockets checked out ok.

The dampness on the interior wall in the kitchen would be a big red flag. Are you covered by Home Bond?

Covered by Premier Guarantee - although I'd like to get this sorted now rather than down the road.

I would definitely get an engineers report on it before I took charge of the house.Just to declare my affiliations, I work for www.HomeSnag.ie

It looks like in order to get more weight behind the issues I've already raised, I will need an engineers report for sure - in order to strengthen my case and put the pressure back on the builders.
A fully fledged engineers report is not within the remit of homesnag.ie though right?

I would be curious to know Fintan - as you deal with this sort of thing on a regular basis...
Is it feasible if i'm determined enough to insist on getting ALL of the snags done on the list?
Taking one case in point - unsquare walls - but not visibly noticeable. What would you expect a builder to do in these circumstances?

Thanks for posting.

 

[Marie]

I peered in there - to confirm that rockwool was in place but didnt get up there properly as the ladder i had was too short. What exactly am I after as regards the felt Fintan - that theres no holes in it? Is there anything else I should check whilst up there as I intend getting up there properly with a halogen lamp when i go back to check the heating.

I visibly checked from ground level - and I have been there on other occassions when its been raining - theres no sign of water getting down in between.
Yeah - all checked.
I thoroughly checked each window for scratches - and to my amazement there were none. Also checked that the space between wall and windows/doors had been filled. However, checking window seals never occured to me. Will do this when I go back - thanks.
All but two - the patio and back doors for which I had no keys. They will go down on the initial snag list just to cover myself - so that they have to provide keys for when I return.

EVERY lightswitch and electrical socket in the house was tested - and I highly recommend that nobody assumes that something so basic could not be in order. I found one set of light switches that didnt work, and two seperate switches that turn the light off in the 'on' position/turn light on in the 'off' position. All electric sockets checked out ok.


Covered by Premier Guarantee - although I'd like to get this sorted now rather than down the road.

It looks like in order to get more weight behind the issues I've already raised, I will need an engineers report for sure - in order to strengthen my case and put the pressure back on the builders.
A fully fledged engineers report is not within the remit of homesnag.ie though right?

I would be curious to know Fintan - as you deal with this sort of thing on a regular basis...
Is it feasible if i'm determined enough to insist on getting ALL of the snags done on the list?
Taking one case in point - unsquare walls - but not visibly noticeable. What would you expect a builder to do in these circumstances?

Thanks for posting.

Walls and doors which were not vertical were part of my list in a court-case with a builder. The judge's response was to dismiss that complaint as walls being 'off-true' did not interfer with the use of the room. I kid you not! But all the best with it!