Is it time for wage increases?


I read it differently. I read it that "military and infrastructure spending" as it stands, i.e. each one being separate. The comments are in reference to Trump who wants to beef up the military, engage on massive infrastructure spending and reduce corporation taxes. These 3 items are being referred to by Bill Gross.

The sentiment of fiscal stimulus is taking hold in the developed world, would you agree?
I agree it's taking hold.

Perhaps not yet in Ireland, but we usually follow at some point.

As per above, we have had fiscal stimulus in Ireland since 2008, probably one of the highest in any developed world ever. So much so that the EU has told us not to do any more. We're not following, we're leading!

The concept of fiscal stimulus in the articles I have listed is to reward labour over capital. Would you agree?
I do agree.
 

Yes, but then he clearly states that governments should step in, not to reduce taxes.
Doing so will result in any benefits of infrastructure spending predominantly to capital over labour.
 
Thank you.

Not at all. I think some companies, such as Apple, have obscene amounts of money tied up in their balance sheets. I would love them to pay their workers more, especially in places like China where some workers in sub-contractors like in Foxconn would rather jump off buildings than carry on working. However, if you force all companies to pay more in wages, then so many companies would close and / or lay off workers, that the few who would benefit would be outnumbered by those who would lose out. There may be a conception that most or all businesses are making lots of money at the expense of their employees. It's not true at all. Many small businesses are barely breaking even, all you have to do is look at the empty windows in towns up and down the country. Forcing wage increases would lead to further closures and / or job losses.

I think perhaps a better way for employees to share the wealth of their employers would be to either own part of the company or receive a share of the profits...the better the company does, the better the employee does. It takes the pressure off wages and provides incentives to workers to deliver more. Employees have a stake in the business too and can object to things like excessive executive pay more easily. Again, impossible to enforce, but I know one company that shares a % of its profits to staff and it works very well - they have low staff turnover. The wages are so so but on a regular basis there's something extra in the pay packet.

I admit this is not available to most in the public sector as the purpose is not for the government to make a profit per se. However, if the government can run a surplus then maybe bonuses could be paid or something. I don't have any more ideas here though.

On a genuine note, I've re-read some of my posts and I hope I don't come across as anti-public sector, because I promise you I'm not. My wife works in the HSE and I have family members who are also employees of the State. I just don't want to increase our national debt any further because I genuinely think it's going to break us if we're not careful and I feel so bad for my kids who will probably have to emigrate. I'm not for a second blaming public sector workers for the state or level of our national debt by the way, but just when we are nearly breaking even, the unions are lining up again. We have a national debt of 180bn and a pension crisis that will make the bank bailout look like spare change. If I stand back and look at it coldly, I can't see how we will pull through it. Maybe that's why I started that Good News Thread!!
 
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Unfortunately, as a qualified mechanic, he is relatively low paid €14ph. With rent and childcare etc there is not much left over. He is a good lad, 27, would love to buy his own home but it is out of reach.

He must be a rubbish mechanic if he’s only getting €14 per hour and not getting any overtime or nixers.


The vast majority of businesses like that make small profits and spend the vast majority of their income on wages.


By a left-wing government? Yes? Or no?
It was very left wing.


Left-wing governments, again?
Again, it was very left wing.


A combination of taxes and cuts has been the austere policy for 6-7yrs
We have continued to borrow money to fund day to day expenses. That’s hardly austerity.


Agreed.


What on earth could he mean by being the employer of last resort?

My guess is he is advocating fiscal stimulus (hopefully in a productive way) that will result in a transfer of wealth from capital to labour.
The State being the employer of last resort, i.e. employing people for the sake of it. We did it here in the 70’s.


We constantly hear how public sector workers are over-burdened, so I don't think reducing numbers further would be sustainable.
They are but much of it is to do with inefficient processes.


Take Sweden or New Zealand. Both are much better run. Both have better public services. Both have much fairer income tax systems and a generally broader tax base.


I agree that there has been a general move from a return on labour to a return on capital. It’s happened since the 80’s and early 90’s, mainly since the opening up of South East Asia and a huge increase on capital due to their very low wage costs. On a global level, as per your original post, this has resulted in massive wage increases, just not in the part of the globe where wages were already high.


So, in answer to your first post yes; it is time for wages to increase and there have been increasing well ahead of inflation for the vast majority of those in the labour force (or “workers” as you like to call them) in the world. Just not for those who are already very highly paid. Everyone in Ireland, even those who have no job, are very highly paid in the global context.
 
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He must be a rubbish mechanic if he’s only getting €14 per hour and not getting any overtime or nixers.

That is a really dumb ignorant comment I have to say. You dont know anything about the man.
You don't know for instance that he lives in small provincial town from a farming background where he also works on the family farm. You don't know that he is a committed footballer, hurler and cyclist (his accident was a nasty fall in mountain bike event) and gives his time to volunteer in his community in various ways.
He is committed to his family and his community. If that means foregoing 'the market rate' for his skills so be it. Life is not just about the climb up the greasy pole to higher incomes and serious illness cover, is it?
 
That's a bit harsh!
If someone makes choices which limit their ability to earn a higher income that's their own business. They may well enjoy a better quality of life and be happier. Money is not the be all and end all and it certainly doesn't bring happiness but at the same time you can't complain about a low income or the limitations that brings (for example not being able to afford income protection insurance) if you choose to do things which limit your income.
 


People are free to choose how to spend their time and I'm glad we live in such a society. The mechanic in question is obviously committed to his community and that's great. Plenty other people are too though who also have a higher income. 14 euro an hour for a mechanic is quite low I would have thought. Given his farming background and rural location, perhaps he could specialise in farming equipment or something. He may well choose to work the same hours as he currently does but his rate could be higher.
 
Unfortunately, as a qualified mechanic, he is relatively low paid €14ph. With rent and childcare etc there is not much left over. He is a good lad, 27, would love to buy his own home but it is out of reach.
This will probably be considered harsh also...

Childcare costs and a home is out of reach? Maybe he should have prioritized a house before having the child if that's what he wanted.

No insurance, a child to pay for and he's out mountain biking and breaks his leg? Maybe he should stick to something a little less dangerous given his precarious financial situation.
 
Yes, assuming somebody is rubbish at their job based solely on their income level is indeed very harsh.
Giving a small part of the story and then attacking someone who draws conclusions based on that portion which you gave is indeed very harsh. If you are posting a hard luck story then give all the facts before you get all precious about it.
In normal circumstances if a mechanic is only earning €28'000 a year then he or she isn't much of a mechanic. If there are other reasons why they are on such a low income then include those reasons when bringing it up.
 
That must be a really dumb ignorant comment too.
 
It's not just a bit harsh, it's a really dumb ignorant comment.
 
Giving a small part of the story and then attacking someone who draws conclusions based on that portion which you gave is indeed very harsh

Thats exactly what you did. You took a small element of a story and automatically attacked the persons ability and skills based solely on their income level. Its not a first, you are consistent in attacking people on low incomes, that they should upskill, or they get the 'market rate' they deserve.
Funnily, when talking about your own 45% pay cut, it has nothing to do with you being rubbish at your job, or is it?
 

I assumed a €14ph rate. Could be a bit more or a bit less. He is 27yrs old, lives in a provincal town (Athlone to be precise), how much do you think a qualified mechanic, working for a brand franchise should command?
 
Thats exactly what you did. You took a small element of a story and automatically attacked the persons ability and skills based solely on their income level.
I took all of the information you had given and drew a conclusion. You then moved the goalposts.
Its not a first, you are consistent in attacking people on low incomes, that they should upskill, or they get the 'market rate' they deserve.
That's not attacking them, it's just suggesting they do what other people do who want to earn more.

Funnily, when talking about your own 45% pay cut, it has nothing to do with you being rubbish at your job, or is it?
Yes, if I was better at my job it may not have happened. That's the real world for you. I can't go on strike and picket reality.
 
Maybe he should have prioritized a house before having the child if that's what he wanted.

I think this is harsh to be fair. Different if he had 8 kids maybe, but people have kids either planned or unplanned all the time.